The Champions League

[Colliwobblers]

The only problem I have with C4's plan is that it has no method or even mention of how to include the Asians or British teams   :o

I don't care if there is only one champions league that is the plan after all, Holz was looking at a SEPARATE thing altogether so put that aside for now and let's just talk champions league.

What is the point of a champions league consisting of 2 out of the 4 competitions?

And I am adverse to any champions league being made up of teams worked out on a universal ranking system, with the different scoring systems and rules this is all but impossible. (in particular that Asians VC scoring comes to mind.)

Not only that, you cannot simply formulate scoring across competitions evenly, SC is so fundamentally different to DT.

Teams cannot be ranked as players in teams in different competitions are there for TOTALLY different scoring systems.

Key defenders are worthless in DT and SB.

Marks are not counted at all in British.

Goals are 12 points in Asians.


I Cannot for the life of me see why you cannot work out a way to simply rank the teams INSIDE THEIR OWN COMPETITIONS

and take the top 4 (BY YOUR RANKING SYSTEM) from each 15's competition.

Wouldn't this be far simpler and far more accurate and make the champions league far more interesting to all coaches of all 4 competitions giving an even representation from each 15's competition.

As for how you rank the top 4 for each 15's competition i don't care as long as whatever you decide works accurately.

[meow meow]

I'm sure C4 will work it out perfectly. I just think it would be cool to have a competition that involved every XV team. Holz came last in the euro last year, but could be top 4 this year but miss out on the comp.

[Holz]

I'm sure C4 will work it out perfectly. I just think it would be cool to have a competition that involved every XV team. Holz came last in the euro last year, but could be top 4 this year but miss out on the comp.

yeah thats my point i would like to see everyone invovled.

I really don't see what's wrong with having the champs league where only a 1/4 of the teams involved  and a cup where everyone is involved.

Both will be knock-out after the byes, so if a team is involved in both comps its unlikely they will be after a few rounds.

[Ziplock]

sorry, but what about a round robin over like the first 4 rounds to identify what teams are in? like EVERYONE plays EVERYONE in those rounds, and the top 16 with the most wins get into the champion league for the remainder of the season?

then next year do the top 16 thing?

I like this idea, I think it's smart.

[ossie85]

I actually prefer Holzman's scoring system sorry c4, yours has merit no doubt, but think simple should be better.

How about we have a Champions League just between Worlds and Euros this season? May not be popular but the Brits and Asia teams haven't played yet.

Worlds and Euros had to wait a year, why shouldn't the others?

[Justin Bieber]

I actually prefer Holzman's scoring system sorry c4, yours has merit no doubt, but think simple should be better.

How about we have a Champions League just between Worlds and Euros this season? May not be popular but the Brits and Asia teams haven't played yet.

Worlds and Euros had to wait a year, why shouldn't the others?

I like it.

[Colliwobblers]

I actually prefer Holzman's scoring system sorry c4, yours has merit no doubt, but think simple should be better.

How about we have a Champions League just between Worlds and Euros this season? May not be popular but the Brits and Asia teams haven't played yet.

Worlds and Euros had to wait a year, why shouldn't the others?

Because when you look back at past champions league winners in years to come this year that only had half the 15's competitions included will be considered "lesser"? (especially if a team from the Asians or British wins a few in a row in future seasons) - it will be easy to say whoever wins this one was only the winner as the Briitish and Asians weren't in it :)

just an example....

Suit yourselves but I think both c4 and holz rating systems allow for the new competitions as they plan to rate on the current season form, not previous seasons ladders.

I'll go wit hthe crowd, but surely 4 is better than 2....

[ossie85]

I hear what you're saying Colliwobblers, but surely a Champions League should be comprised of Champion teams... Every Brit and Asia team are at 1-1..

But, I'm stepping back and letting others decide this one!

[c4v3m4n]

Perhaps we put this on ice until the end of next season. :)

That way the format can be properly sorted out, the seeding/ranking system can be sorted out and we can then have all 4 competitions involved.

Seems like we are rushing in to things and I want this done right, not rushed.

[Colliwobblers]

I hear what you're saying Colliwobblers, but surely a Champions League should be comprised of Champion teams... Every Brit and Asia team are at 1-1..

But, I'm stepping back and letting others decide this one!

Yeah fair point, might give the guys running it a chance to get their systems right with the formula that exist between SC and DT, before trying to work out how to figure in SB and VS.

I'm going with the crowd, would like to see in future seasons a relatively even number of teams from each 15's competition (the best in each comp) go through to the champions League and that's about all i am firm on :)

[Ziplock]

I actually prefer Holzman's scoring system sorry c4, yours has merit no doubt, but think simple should be better.

How about we have a Champions League just between Worlds and Euros this season? May not be popular but the Brits and Asia teams haven't played yet.

Worlds and Euros had to wait a year, why shouldn't the others?

I think this might be best.... I mean, we don't have proper scoring ratios for SB/VS do we?

[Colliwobblers]

it won't be as simple as that either Zip the Asians XVs have a VC score 150% as well as the C score 200%, so comparing scores accross competitions is no simple matter.

[meow meow]

it won't be as simple as that either Zip the Asians XVs have a VC score 150% as well as the C score 200%, so comparing scores accross competitions is no simple matter.

It's pretty simple when you use Holz's method. If the average score of the Asian teams is 1500 and the average score of the WXV teams is 1300 then the asians will get a multiplier of x 0.8667. It doesn't matter how the 1500 is achieved.

[Colliwobblers]

it won't be as simple as that either Zip the Asians XVs have a VC score 150% as well as the C score 200%, so comparing scores accross competitions is no simple matter.

It's pretty simple when you use Holz's method. If the average score of the Asian teams is 1500 and the average score of the WXV teams is 1300 then the asians will get a multiplier of x 0.8667. It doesn't matter how the 1500 is achieved.

good point :)

still think it's better to take the top teams from each league rather than the top teams overall, unlikely but possible there could be no teams represented from one or more 15's competition. So the champions of a given competition effectively may not even make the cut for the champions league.

I guess once the lads sort all this out then they have to sort out how to "score" the champions league matches, given the different make up of teams based on the different scoring systems how is that going to work :)

Still they can work it out :)

[c4v3m4n]

it won't be as simple as that either Zip the Asians XVs have a VC score 150% as well as the C score 200%, so comparing scores accross competitions is no simple matter.

It is simple. Teams would be ranked without captain or vice-captain bonuses. ::)

Then we'd set up a universal set of rules that everyone agrees upon.

it won't be as simple as that either Zip the Asians XVs have a VC score 150% as well as the C score 200%, so comparing scores accross competitions is no simple matter.

It's pretty simple when you use Holz's method. If the average score of the Asian teams is 1500 and the average score of the WXV teams is 1300 then the asians will get a multiplier of x 0.8667. It doesn't matter how the 1500 is achieved.

Actually meow, Holz's method is based on weekly scores, so it has included captain scores. My method however, does not.