Carlton H&A Discussion

[Mailman the 2nd]

Everyone is well aware that Betts is severely overpaid. Only kicks goals when Adelaide's midfield are dominating against weaker sides.

Not sure where you get that from...
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide: 4 goals
Round 13 vs North: 3 goals
Round 14 vs Essendon: 3 goals
Round 15 vs. Port Adelaide: 4 goals

So that's 4 of his 6 highest bags of goals this year, all against good sides.

All I can see is 600k spent and Adelaide hasn't moved from where it was last year

[Mat0369]

That's irrelevant though, Hampson isn't a better ruckman than most teams have but we needed a ruckman and there aren't many ruckman around so were willing to use a higher pick than he was worth. There's no demand for small forwards. They can be created. I have no doubt teams will go after him but I very much doubt anyone would pay a high price for him.

It's not irrelevant when so many teams are in need of one. Since 2010 the list of small forwards to kick over 40 goals.

Betts, Garlett, Didak, Milne, Gia, Jetta, Breust, Walters, Motlop, Wingard, Thomas and I will throw in LeCras.

Ballantyne, Betts and Thomas look like the only guys to do it this year and Ballantyne is the only guy that hasn't done it before.

The list is not that big. Going into next season 3 of those guys are retired which leaves 10 small forwards to have kicked over 40 goals. If you want to include Stevie J and Gaz, that list goes up to 12. Jeffy is the only one that looks to be available which then makes him the best available in his position. 40 goal a year small forwards are not easily created. If North were willing to offer 600k to land Eddie Betts, why would they not offer up a second round pick for Garlett?

[Jay]

Everyone is well aware that Betts is severely overpaid. Only kicks goals when Adelaide's midfield are dominating against weaker sides.

Not sure where you get that from...
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide: 4 goals
Round 13 vs North: 3 goals
Round 14 vs Essendon: 3 goals
Round 15 vs. Port Adelaide: 4 goals

So that's 4 of his 6 highest bags of goals this year, all against good sides.

All I can see is 600k spent and Adelaide hasn't moved from where it was last year

Yeah, because Eddie is the only factor in that... Without him we'd be even worse! Costs a lot to get guys to move interstate, it was a good move from the club to get him.

I was mainly disagreeing with the point about him only kicking goals against bad sides.

[Mailman the 2nd]

Everyone is well aware that Betts is severely overpaid. Only kicks goals when Adelaide's midfield are dominating against weaker sides.

Not sure where you get that from...
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide: 4 goals
Round 13 vs North: 3 goals
Round 14 vs Essendon: 3 goals
Round 15 vs. Port Adelaide: 4 goals

So that's 4 of his 6 highest bags of goals this year, all against good sides.

All I can see is 600k spent and Adelaide hasn't moved from where it was last year

Yeah, because Eddie is the only factor in that... Without him we'd be even worse! Costs a lot to get guys to move interstate, it was a good move from the club to get him.

I was mainly disagreeing with the point about him only kicking goals against bad sides.

That was something I added without thinking, but my point was when Adelaide does it tough he goes missing

[Mat0369]

All I can see is 600k spent and Adelaide hasn't moved from where it was last year

Their forward line has improved, they were sitting around 11th last year in points scored, at the start of this round they were sitting 4th. Eddie is doing what they are paying him to do. He has kicked the 2nd most goals of any small forward in the league and is tied 6th in the league in goal assists. He might not be worth 600k, but he is one of the best in the league in an area Adelaide were severely struggling.

[Mat0369]

Yeah I said the Swans players left under different circumstances but its the same principle. Not getting games = less value.

The demand isn't going to be big, maybe 2-3 clubs would consider him a worthwhile player to grab and you'd be very lucky to find one that would give you a 2nd round pick for him.

Small midfield/forwards are absolutely everywhere every trade period. Off the top of my head guys like Matt White, Polec, Nahas, Chapman, Byrnes, Pearce, Knights, Edwards, Dennis-Lane.

Every single one of those guys either had potential before or after they were traded to be pretty big players and they all went for 3rd rounders or less

Polec is a midfielder and still netted Brisbane a few upgrades in terms of picks, Chappy is old and broken down, Knights has had injury issues and was a free agent, Pearce was a FA and the others are not even in the same league as Jeffy.

You seriously can not compare guys like Byrnes, Nahas and Trent Dennis-Lane to Jeffy

[Jay]

All I can see is 600k spent and Adelaide hasn't moved from where it was last year

Their forward line has improved, they were sitting around 11th last year in points scored, at the start of this round they were sitting 4th. Eddie is doing what they are paying him to do. He has kicked the 2nd most goals of any small forward in the league and is tied 6th in the league in goal assists. He might not be worth 600k, but he is one of the best in the league in an area Adelaide were severely struggling.

Without him our forward line would be relatively lifeless. He is a quality player. Would rather overpay for him a little than for him to not come over at all. Only criticism could be that he is sometimes too unselfish and should look for the goals a bit more often. I think he'll only improve as Tex improves too.

You could look at it the other way too. Last year Carlton had Eddie they made the 8 and now without him they are 13th.
Carlton average score 2013: 96
Carlton average score 2014: 89

Maybe isn't much but you'd have to say losing Eddie is a factor in that -7 differential.

[Mailman the 2nd]

Yeah I said the Swans players left under different circumstances but its the same principle. Not getting games = less value.

The demand isn't going to be big, maybe 2-3 clubs would consider him a worthwhile player to grab and you'd be very lucky to find one that would give you a 2nd round pick for him.

Small midfield/forwards are absolutely everywhere every trade period. Off the top of my head guys like Matt White, Polec, Nahas, Chapman, Byrnes, Pearce, Knights, Edwards, Dennis-Lane.

Every single one of those guys either had potential before or after they were traded to be pretty big players and they all went for 3rd rounders or less

Polec is a midfielder and still netted Brisbane a few upgrades in terms of picks, Chappy is old and broken down, Knights has had injury issues and was a free agent, Pearce was a FA and the others are not even in the same league as Jeffy.

You seriously can not compare guys like Byrnes, Nahas and Trent Dennis-Lane to Jeffy

That's my point. How is he in a different league when he can't get games at a club currently coming 13th? When is that going to be a 2nd round draft pick?

[Mat0369]

That's my point. How is he in a different league when he can't get games at a club currently coming 13th? When is that going to be a 2nd round draft pick?

He might be currently out of favour, but he still has runs on the board. He is turning 25 and has kicked 40 plus goals on multiple occasions. That is elite for his position. You can't compare him to career fringe guys in Dennis-Lane and and Shannon Byrnes. That is just ridiculous.

[quinny88]

That's irrelevant though, Hampson isn't a better ruckman than most teams have but we needed a ruckman and there aren't many ruckman around so were willing to use a higher pick than he was worth. There's no demand for small forwards. They can be created. I have no doubt teams will go after him but I very much doubt anyone would pay a high price for him.

It's not irrelevant when so many teams are in need of one. Since 2010 the list of small forwards to kick over 40 goals.

Betts, Garlett, Didak, Milne, Gia, Jetta, Breust, Walters, Motlop, Wingard, Thomas and I will throw in LeCras.

Ballantyne, Betts and Thomas look like the only guys to do it this year and Ballantyne is the only guy that hasn't done it before.

The list is not that big. Going into next season 3 of those guys are retired which leaves 10 small forwards to have kicked over 40 goals. If you want to include Stevie J and Gaz, that list goes up to 12. Jeffy is the only one that looks to be available which then makes him the best available in his position. 40 goal a year small forwards are not easily created. If North were willing to offer 600k to land Eddie Betts, why would they not offer up a second round pick for Garlett?

Yes and if he was traded after a 40 goal season I'm sure he would go for probably an early 2nd round pick but he's not that this year. He's not getting games and has been poor when he has played.
It's this reason that teams play players late in a season that they plan to trade to build up their worth before off loading them (like Sydney did with Jesse White). If he's not getting games teams will see him as Carlton waste that they believe they can get for next to nothing and fit into their side. If the blues want a 2nd rounder for him then they might want to get him into the side.

[Mat0369]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-looking-to-sign-outoffavour-swan-tom-mitchell-set-to-gain-steven-trigg-as-new-ceo/story-fni5f5nx-1226996535239?nk=bde876fbecced76c791b9800aa59aeeb

Mitchell, 21, is tied to the Swans until the end of 2016 but is struggling to get a game for the premiership favourites.

The Blues have been pursuing the highly-rated midfielder and were surprised to learn that Sydney, which enjoys a controversial $1 million salary cap bonus, is paying him more than $400,000 a season.

Mitchell joined the Swans under the AFL's father-son rule in 2011 and had a breakout season last year.

Injuries and opportunity have restricted him to just four games this year and he has strong family links to Visy Park.

The thought of this happening, I won't lie, it moved.

His Dad played for Carlton and he was scheduled to become the coach in 07 before the plan backfired and they were forced to keep Pagan due to a lack of money.

[Mailman the 2nd]

Mitchell Sr said he was not aware of Carlton

[Bill Manspeaker]

Mitchell Sr said he was not aware of Carlton

the quote thing strikes again

[Mailman the 2nd]

Damn I thought I checked it after I posted to see if it worked. Must of forgot  :o

[elephants]

Pfft forget Carlton. Come home Tom.