Carlton H&A Discussion

[Vinny]

You can't be serious haha.  We have played bad you guys have been disgusting, only game you were any good was vs Geelong.

We are higher on the ladder. None of your players have improved this year.

Rowe, Everitt, Docherty have all turned into really solid players just to name a few.

[Mat0369]

Just some bloke called Jesse Hogan.

Once this kid gets his body right, look out.

This

Tyson and Viney will be elite.

and this

Also Salem is a classic Paul Roos player and will be really good for them as well.

They also have Chip who was an All Australian FB and is elite, McDonald has been good for them as well and will get underrated, not elite, but a pretty decent player. Colin Garland has not played much footy this year but when he is healthy he pushes into the elite category for his position, he just happened to play for a crappy team so he went unnoticed as well. You can see where their deficiencies are and they are likely to address them over the next two drafts.

Mailman hit the nail on the head when he said right now we have a better list, but 5 years down the track that might be the Dees. Our elite players are Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Hendo, Jamo and Carrots/Curnow (as taggers). Most of those guys will be 30 or gone in 5 years time. We have a few guys in the bracket underneath (Yaz, Jeffy, Walker, Kreuz) but both clubs need to have the young guys start to push through and live up to their potential. Where Melbourne are better placed is they have quite a few young KPP where Carlton don't. These guys might take 5 years to develop while Melbourne already have gotten a couple of pre-seasons into guys like Hogan.

[Vinny]

5 years, I was thinking more along the lines of three years for Carlton to have a shot at the flag we do it right whilst Dees 4-5.

[Mat0369]

Ed is good, but I reckon Caffer, Kerridge and on his day Curren have been better purely as lockdown mids.

People are forgetting how good Ed was last year and earlier this year before he injured himself. You could argue he is actually the best tagger in the game

5 years, I was thinking more along the lines of three years for Carlton to have a shot at the flag we do it right whilst Dees 4-5.

I am pretty sure the talk was over 5, realistically it will be difficult for either to do anything in 5 years because GC/GWS will be in their peak.

[Nige]

5 years, I was thinking more along the lines of three years for Carlton to have a shot at the flag we do it right whilst Dees 4-5.

Three years might a tad soon considering you don't have that forward everyone reckons you need imo.

[GoLions]

5 years, I was thinking more along the lines of three years for Carlton to have a shot at the flag we do it right whilst Dees 4-5.

I am pretty sure the talk was over 5, realistically it will be difficult for either to do anything in 5 years because GC/GWS will be in their peak.

Yeah think the Suns will be extremely hard to stop in 3 years time, and you'd think GWS should be peaking not long after that

[Nige]

Since this thread has had a bit of talk around taggers and I got the idea from it... shameless plug: http://forum.fanfooty.com.au/index.php/topic,96564.0.html

[Vinny]

Fair enough then if we can't get one in the next 4 years, I'd say we are no chance for a long time.

No Murphy, Walker, Gibbs or Simmo in 5 years probably.

[Mat0369]

That is where the Saints were smart in their recruiting strategy, they have blown the list up, but have tried to accumulate as many 10 year players as possible. Guys like Dal and Big Boy would not be part of their next premiership side so they shipped them off to try and bring in as many good young players as possible. They are looking at trying to compete with these young teams down the track by building through the draft.

[Nige]

That is where the Saints were smart in their recruiting strategy, they have blown the list up, but have tried to accumulate as many 10 year players as possible. Guys like Dal and Big Boy would not be part of their next premiership side so they shipped them off to try and bring in as many good young players as possible. They are looking at trying to compete with these young teams down the track by building through the draft.

Yeah, I really admire the Saints for being so bold as to do it.

They looked at the list and realised it was time for the rebuild. They shipped off a few, got rid of some others and then also got the right man for the job in Alan Richardson.

[Master Q]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Not really. Vinny's calls are realistic. We're comparing Melbourne and Carlton here. When at there best we are a top 8 side, and that we are far ahead of Melbourne, I think that is a fair call.

I was really speaking from a list analysis point of view (which kinda want Vin's was is showcasing his point).

Dave could walk in here and make a case as to why the Lions are better than both, I could make a case as to why Richmond are better, Zip could make a case as to why GWS are better. (Not saying that any of these teams are ofc)

My point was really just that the way Vinny broke things down was rather optimistic and biased (as he admitted).

Honestly though, I think both clubs are pretty even.

I see what you're saying, but I'm (Vinny) is not making a case as to why Carlton are better than Hawks, Freo, Geelong etc

It is Melbourne we're talking about  :P

[Vinny]

Yep haha. I have no doubt we are shower compared to most but we are better than the Dees & will be for the next 4 years IMO.

[Mat0369]

We still have a few father son selections which are going to slot very nicely into this side over the next few years.

[Vinny]

We still have a few father son selections which are going to slot very nicely into this side over the next few years.

Can you give any names man, I don't know of any to be honest. Never really looked into it.

Oh and trust Carlton to have 3 taggers on that list.

Plus guys like Everitt, Armfield and sometimes Tuohy. (Even though he is doing a shower job this year.)

[GoLions]

Yep haha. I have no doubt we are shower compared to most but we are better than the Dees & will be for the next 4 years IMO.

Doesn't mean you're closer to a flag ;)