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I saw a few posts about perhaps having a champions league. I have enough time to run a tournament style comp. If there is enough interest we can get it underway!

Was going to run it basically the same as a FIFA World Cup. Total of 32 teams with the top 8 teams from each of the 4 XV comps getting in. Will be run from AFL Rounds 16 through til 22. Once we have the 32 teams we can randomise them and arrange them into groups.

Group Rounds
AFL Round 16
AFL Round 17
AFL Round 18

Round of 16
AFL Round 19

Quater Finals
AFL Round 20

Semi-Finals
AFL Round 21

Grand Final
AFL Round 22


Group A:
-Belgian Bashers (EXV) - Elephants
-Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers (WXV) - Hellopplz
-Swansea Breakers (BXV) - Ringo
-UAE Tigers (AXV) - JROO8

Group B:
-Liverpool Rams (BXV) - Nige
-Macedonian Wolves (EXV) - Scrads
-Mexico City Suns (WXV) - JROO8
-Mongolian Lambs (AXV) - Toga

Group C:
-Bangladesh Bears (AXV) - Adamant
-Berlin Brewers (WXV) - Purple77
-Huddersfield Hawks (BXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Serbian Eagles (EXV) - Nrich


Group D:
-Australian Ales (AXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Iceland Polar Bears (EXV) - Hellopplz
-Moscow Spetnaz (WXV) - Bane/Torpedo10
-Oxford Owls (BXV) - Vinny

Group E:
-Dublin Destroyers (WXV) - Holz
-Kathmandu Eskimos (AXV) - Powerbug
-Nottingham Hoods (BXV) - LF
-Svalbard Valkyries (EXV) - Ziplock

Group F:
-Hastings Hurricanes (BXV) - Purple77
-New York Revolution (WXV) - Aaronkirk/Raisydaisy
-Sri Lankan Strikers (AXV) - Jayman
-Swiss Storm (EXV) - Nige

Group G:
-English Lions (EXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Kuala Lumpur Crocodiles (AXV) - Ricochet
-Toronto Wolves (WXV) - roo boys!
-Winchester Werewolves (BXV) - Rusty00

Group H:
-Bradford Badgers (BXV) - GoLions
-Christchurch Saints (WXV) - meow meow
-Laos Elephants (AXV) - Nige
-Russian Roulettes (EXV) - Nostradamus/Rids

Round of 16 Fixtures:
Match 1:
Winner of Group A (UAE Tigers)
VS
Runner Up of Group B (Macedonian Wolves)

Match 2:
Winner of Group B (Mexico City Suns)
VS
Runner Up of Group A (PNL Reindeers)

Match 3:
Winner of Group C (Berlin Brewers)
VS
Runner Up of Group D (Oxford Owls)

Match 4:
Winner of Group D (Australian Ales)
VS
Runner Up of Group C (Bangladesh Bears)

Match 5:
Winner of Group E (Dublin Destroyers)
VS
Runner Up of Group F (Swiss Storm)

Match 6:
Winner of Group F (Hastings Hurricanes)
VS
Runner Up of Group E (Kathmandu Eskimos)

Match 7:
Winner of Group G (KL Crocodiles)
VS
Runner Up of Group H (Bradford Badgers)

Match 8:
Winner of Group H (Christchurch Saints)
VS
Runner Up of Group G (English Lions)


Quarter Finals Fixtures:
QF 1:
Winner of Match 1 (UAE Tigers)
VS
Winner of Match 3 (Berlin Brewers)

QF 2:
Winner of Match 2 (PNL Reindeers)
VS
Winner of Match 4 (Bangladesh Bears)

QF 3:
Winner of Match 5 (Dublin Destroyers)
VS
Winner of Match 7 (Bradford Badgers)

QF 4:
Winner of Match 6 (Kathmandu Eskimos)
VS
Winner of Match 8 (Christchurch Saints)


Semi Finals Fixtures:
SF 1:
Winner of QF 1
VS
Winner of QF 3

SF 2:
Winner of QF 2
VS
Winner of QF 4


Grand Final Fixture:
Winner of SF 1
VS
Winner of SF 2


The only problem will be the scoring and which system to use. Am happy to hear suggestions.

Scoring Options:
- Plain Supercoach scoring
- Plain Dreamteam scoring
- Plain Sportsbet scoring
- (SC+DT)/2
- (SC+DT+SB)/3

Quote from: Purple 77 on June 26, 2015, 12:17:16 PM
Would love to see a Champions league, so I fully support this :)

However, IMO I reckon the fairest (and most time consuming way) would be (SC + DT + SB)/3

Each team uses their own scoring. And then we have a multiplier to level the scores out.

Eg: WXV - 1, EXV - 1.13, BXV - 1.04, AXV - 0.87 (I pulled these numbers randomly)

To work out the multiplier for each league just grab the average score across the season thus far, and then work out how far each one differs from WXV, and then there is the multiplier.

Once you work out the multiplier it's much less work than the (SC + DT + SB)/3 option and is also fairer as the WXV picked their guys on SC value, EXV have their picked on DT value and so on.

Great work Levi  :)

I like PB's idea, reckon that's the best way to go about it.

BXV uses DT + SC/2 because there is no sportal scoring system anymore so not sure how PB's system would work with the multiplier

Quote from: LF on June 26, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
BXV uses DT + SC/2 because there is no sportal scoring system anymore so not sure how PB's system would work with the multiplier

Example:

Over the first 10 rounds of the season the average score for a team in WXV is 1,400. This will be considered our base score.

In EXV the average score per team has been 1,276. To make this score equal to 1400 you multiply by 1.0972. So the EXV multiplier is 1.10

In BXV lets say the average score per week is 1,348. So to make this score equal to 1400 you multiply by 1.0386. So the BXV multipler is 1.04

In AXV assume the average score per week (excluding the bye weeks) has been 1,789. To make this equal to 1,400 you multiply by 0.7826. So the AXV multiplier is 0.78.

Then you use these multipliers for a team that comes from the respective league to work out who had the better week.


Wasn't this how the Champs League used to work?

Not too much input personally. Looking forward to taking part though.

Obviously, I think the best way to go about it is to make sure there's a way to keep it even so no sides get disadvantaged, so I guess this multiplier thing being talked about will achieve that.

I don't do maths and numbers though, so leave me out of that.  :P

Would HGA scores be exempt from Champions League matches?

I assume the Worlds' resting bonuses will be exempt too.

Quote from: PowerBug on June 26, 2015, 01:42:32 PM

Quote from: LF on June 26, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
BXV uses DT + SC/2 because there is no sportal scoring system anymore so not sure how PB's system would work with the multiplier

Example:

Over the first 10 rounds of the season the average score for a team in WXV is 1,400. This will be considered our base score.

In EXV the average score per team has been 1,276. To make this score equal to 1400 you multiply by 1.0972. So the EXV multiplier is 1.10

In BXV lets say the average score per week is 1,348. So to make this score equal to 1400 you multiply by 1.0386. So the BXV multipler is 1.04

In AXV assume the average score per week (excluding the bye weeks) has been 1,789. To make this equal to 1,400 you multiply by 0.7826. So the AXV multiplier is 0.78.

Then you use these multipliers for a team that comes from the respective league to work out who had the better week.


Wasn't this how the Champs League used to work?

This was the scoring system used a couple of years back when the champions league ran.

I think it works quite well and is just about as fair as you can get.

Yep PBs method is the way to go

Why not include the axviii's too? Racism :P

The multiplier system would work for us despite the 2 extra mids, extra utility, and 1.5x for VC

Quote from: Bane on June 26, 2015, 06:18:27 PM
Why not include the axviii's too? Racism :P

The multiplier system would work for us despite the 2 extra mids, extra utility, and 1.5x for VC

The multiplier works for any competition. It could work for i5s too if wanted.


But your competitions suck and shouldn't even be on FF :P

Quote from: Purple 77 on June 26, 2015, 02:56:10 PM
Would HGA scores be exempt from Champions League matches?

I assume the Worlds' resting bonuses will be exempt too.

No HGA at all unfortunately. 

And also no resting and no flooding, attacking etc.


Have also decided that next week(After AFL Round 14) will be the last week for teams to qualify. This means that there are 2 games for AXV, BXV and EXV teams to try and slide in and there is only 1 game left for WXV teams to get in.


I like the multiplier system as well so that is what we will be using.

Just another slight need to correct some comps have a 1.5 multiplier for VC that others do not.  In worlds you can have co captains as well.

So just for fairness should we just use total raw scores without any bonuses (including captain) whatsoever.

Quote from: PowerBug on June 26, 2015, 06:30:00 PM

Quote from: Bane on June 26, 2015, 06:18:27 PM
Why not include the axviii's too? Racism :P

The multiplier system would work for us despite the 2 extra mids, extra utility, and 1.5x for VC

The multiplier works for any competition. It could work for i5s too if wanted.


But your competitions suck and shouldn't even be on FF :P

You're just jealous that you can't run a good comp m80

Quote from: Levi434 on June 26, 2015, 06:53:01 PM
I like the multiplier system as well so that is what we will be using.

I'm not sure about the other comps but AXV plays through the byes which result in much lower scoring. So when calculating the average I was going to exclude the averages there.


And then there's the issue of how to use HGA when calculating these average scores. It'll be a lot of work to go back and work out the scores without HGA for each team each week.

If you include HGA and all other bonuses each comp has (I don't think there are any for AXV), then you can read straight off the ladder to work out the average score. But then you have slightly off multipliers.

The average AXV score after 10 rounds was 1,763.66 which is ~1,764


Also the complexity of WXV (i hear words like flooding and resting and think complex shiz) means that teams from that comp might need to name a WXV side and a Champs League side?


Reading off a ladder in the EXV dated 6th June, the average EXV score each week is 1339.18 or ~1,339


I found a Worlds ladder dated after 10 rounds of the AFL, however the points there were rounded and divided by 10 (To look neater) so the average score of 1,356 per round that I calculate there might be slightly off. I think it would be better to get Purple's numbers on this one as he will have the raw stuff.

BXV has no ladder where I can easily see who has scored what so far. So Ringo will be needed to give us the numbers here.

Quote from: Ringo on June 26, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
Just another slight need to correct some comps have a 1.5 multiplier for VC that others do not.  In worlds you can have co captains as well.

So just for fairness should we just use total raw scores without any bonuses (including captain) whatsoever.

Is probably the way to go

Quote from: PowerBug on June 26, 2015, 07:19:55 PM
I found a Worlds ladder dated after 10 rounds of the AFL, however the points there were rounded and divided by 10 (To look neater) so the average score of 1,356 per round that I calculate there might be slightly off. I think it would be better to get Purple's numbers on this one as he will have the raw stuff.

BXV has no ladder where I can easily see who has scored what so far. So Ringo will be needed to give us the numbers here.

Will get on it now.

Quote from: Ringo on June 26, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
Just another slight need to correct some comps have a 1.5 multiplier for VC that others do not.  In worlds you can have co captains as well.

So just for fairness should we just use total raw scores without any bonuses (including captain) whatsoever.

The multiplier factors in the VC bonuses so that won't be a problem.

Quote from: PowerBug on June 26, 2015, 07:19:55 PM

I found a Worlds ladder dated after 10 rounds of the AFL, however the points there were rounded and divided by 10 (To look neater) so the average score of 1,356 per round that I calculate there might be slightly off. I think it would be better to get Purple's numbers on this one as he will have the raw stuff.

BXV has no ladder where I can easily see who has scored what so far. So Ringo will be needed to give us the numbers here.

Yup, 1356 is the average score per team.

However, if I take out all the bonuses and penalties (rest bonuses, captain bonuses, HGA bonuses, OOP penalties), the average score per team (rounded up to the nearest point) is 1241

Current Teams in So Far:
1: Dublin Destroyers (WXV) - Holz
2: Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers (WXV) - Hellopplz
3: Christchurch Saints (WXV) - meow meow
4: Moscow Spetnaz (WXV) - Bane/Torpedo10
5: Mexico City Suns (WXV) - JROO8
6: New york Revolution (WXV) - Aaronkirk/RaisyDaisy
7: Berlin Brewers (WXV) - Purple77
8: Tokyo Samurai (WXV) - Boomz
9: Macedonian Wolves (EXV) - Scrads
10: Swiss Storm (EXV) - Nige
11: English Lions (EXV) - JBs-Hawks
12: Serbian Eagles (EXV) - Nrich
13: Belgain Bashers (EXV) - Elephants
14: Iceland Polar Bears (EXV) - Hellopplz
15: Russian Roulettes (EXV) - Nostradamus/Rids
16: Svalbard Valkyries (EXV) - Ziplock
17: Winchester Werewolves (BXV) - Rusty00
18: Liverpool Rams (BXV) - Nige
19: Nottingham Hoods (BXV) - LF
20: Swansea Breakers (BXV) - Ringo
21: Huddersfield Hawks (BXV) - JBs-Hawks
22: Hastings Hurricanes (BXV) - Purple77
23: Bradford Badgers (BXV) - GoLions
24: Oxford Owls (BXV) - Vinny
25: UAE Tigers (AXV) - JROO8
26: Australian Ales (AXV) - JBs-Hawks
27: Laos Elephants (AXV) - Nige
28: Sri Lanka Strikers (AXV) - Jayman
29: Kathmandu Eskimos (AXV) - Powerbug
30: Mongolian Lambs (AXV) - Toga
31: Kuala Lumpur Crocodiles (AXV) - Ricochet
32: Baankok Crabs (AXV) - Rids



Keep in mind that these teams are NOT final. There are a few teams in currently who may be a little nervous about qualifying. The cut off date is post AFL Round 14 remember.

Also if there are any mistakes with the coaches let me know.

2nd, 2nd and 3rd.  8)

Shame about Karen though.  :(

Brewers and Hurricanes  8)

Will be interesting to see what happens when some coaches teams play each other.  Will they tank one or not.

For Levi got a bit of work to do to take out bonuses but hopefully will do this week and get British average score to you.

Actually now that I think about it, no score should be altered to what you give it in your normal comp.

The multiplier will take into effect all of this for every comp. WXV might be better off naming a different side to the one which they do in the Worlds Comp where they rest. But it means that they could alter their resting to be better primed for the Champions League if they want. The teams that have Cup and League to worry about have to do that as well so I don't see the issue with it really.

It also makes things really easy for those working out the scores. The only thing that won't be used in the Champs League is HGA, but for the sake of working out what multiplier each league has leave it in.

Will we have the basic Captain (scorex2) and Vice-Captain (back-up for Captain, but if not needed just the normal score taken)?

Quote from: PowerBug on June 28, 2015, 07:20:30 PM
Actually now that I think about it, no score should be altered to what you give it in your normal comp.

The multiplier will take into effect all of this for every comp. WXV might be better off naming a different side to the one which they do in the Worlds Comp where they rest. But it means that they could alter their resting to be better primed for the Champions League if they want. The teams that have Cup and League to worry about have to do that as well so I don't see the issue with it really.

It also makes things really easy for those working out the scores. The only thing that won't be used in the Champs League is HGA, but for the sake of working out what multiplier each league has leave it in.

At Worlds team's are also allowed to (for a limited amount of times per year), name 3 defenders/5 forward or 5 defenders/3 forwards. Does it need to be the classic XV layout for this?

Quote from: Purple 77 on June 28, 2015, 07:44:18 PM
Will we have the basic Captain (scorex2) and Vice-Captain (back-up for Captain, but if not needed just the normal score taken)?

Yeah that's fine.

AXV will have x2 for skipper and x1.5 for VC. And that doesn't need to change.

Quote from: Purple 77 on June 28, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
At Worlds team's are also allowed to (for a limited amount of times per year), name 3 defenders/5 forward or 5 defenders/3 forwards. Does it need to be the classic XV layout for this?

This is where it might be complicated. I assume there are bonuses/penalties for doing this kind of thing? The scores that are affected by the way the opposition line up probably shouldn't be included, but again, if it's going to be easier for Levi to work it all out, then we can leave it in.

It's a work in progress and it'll only get better in future seasons as things get worked out.

Quote from: PowerBug on June 28, 2015, 07:54:06 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on June 28, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
At Worlds team's are also allowed to (for a limited amount of times per year), name 3 defenders/5 forward or 5 defenders/3 forwards. Does it need to be the classic XV layout for this?

This is where it might be complicated. I assume there are bonuses/penalties for doing this kind of thing?

There aren't any penalties or bonuses at all at the moment for flooding/attacking, but we are looking into it for next year.

This might be a crazy idea but how about we get the total score from EVERY player from each of the comps (DT, SC, SB) and use those to work out the multiplier?

Because some players are more suited to the different scoring systems.

Would not work for Brits atm Levi due to 1/2 combined AF + SC,

For the sake of conversation lets say that 100,000 points have been scored in SC so far this year.

Perhaps there has been 110,000 DT and 128,000 SB why can't we use those numbers to determine the modifiers?


During Champions League:


SC scores will be used as the baseline so teams from WXV; scores will stay the same.

DT scores are 10% higher than SC so teams from EXV; scores will be multiplied by 0.9.

(Total SC + Total DT) / 2 will determine that these scores are 5% higher than so teams from BXV; scores will be multiplied by 0.95.

SB scores and 28% higher than SC scores so teams from AXV; scores will be multiplied by 0.78



I don't see a difference with these numbers opposed to the points scored in the XV leagues. Wouldn't it be more accurate?

Firstly, your numbers are wrong slightly. If you want 110,000 to become 100,000 you wouldn't multiple by 0.9, you multiply by 0.90909. And the same with the other ones, it would be 0.78125 for AXV and 0.9524 for BXV.

However the issue above is that some comps hand out more bonuses than others.

E.g. WXV side score 1500, every player scores 100. A AXV team scores 1920 (128 x 15). With the multiplier above they would tie. But because Worlds has a captain bonus and AXV has a captain and VC bonus, the Asians team would win despite not actually performing better.


However whichever way the multipliers are chosen there will be some issues and some errors.

356364 points have been scored in SC so far this year btw.

But that's for every AFL player.

Quote from: PowerBug on June 29, 2015, 05:29:24 PM
Firstly, your numbers are wrong slightly. If you want 110,000 to become 100,000 you wouldn't multiple by 0.9, you multiply by 0.90909. And the same with the other ones, it would be 0.78125 for AXV and 0.9524 for BXV.

However the issue above is that some comps hand out more bonuses than others.

E.g. WXV side score 1500, every player scores 100. A AXV team scores 1920 (128 x 15). With the multiplier above they would tie. But because Worlds has a captain bonus and AXV has a captain and VC bonus, the Asians team would win despite not actually performing better.


However whichever way the multipliers are chosen there will be some issues and some errors.

But we're stripping away the multipliers in Champs League (apart from captaincy?) so the way Levi just explained it should be fine yeh? He only needs a comparison for raw scoring between the comps before multipliers

Euros has 14 teams, Asians 16, British 16 and Worlds 18.

If we do it how it by total points than Euros will kill the rest as they're teams are stronger.

Quote from: Ricochet on June 29, 2015, 05:58:06 PM

Quote from: PowerBug on June 29, 2015, 05:29:24 PM
Firstly, your numbers are wrong slightly. If you want 110,000 to become 100,000 you wouldn't multiple by 0.9, you multiply by 0.90909. And the same with the other ones, it would be 0.78125 for AXV and 0.9524 for BXV.

However the issue above is that some comps hand out more bonuses than others.

E.g. WXV side score 1500, every player scores 100. A AXV team scores 1920 (128 x 15). With the multiplier above they would tie. But because Worlds has a captain bonus and AXV has a captain and VC bonus, the Asians team would win despite not actually performing better.


However whichever way the multipliers are chosen there will be some issues and some errors.

But we're stripping away the multipliers in Champs League (apart from captaincy?) so the way Levi just explained it should be fine yeh? He only needs a comparison for raw scoring between the comps before multipliers

Correct so this would work then. Do you or BB have the full Sportsbet numbers? The DT one shouldnt be hard to get

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on June 29, 2015, 06:19:37 PM
Euros has 14 teams, Asians 16, British 16 and Worlds 18.

If we do it how it by total points than Euros will kill the rest as they're teams are stronger.

Not sure how this is relevant in sorting out what the equalisation multipliers will be.

Whilst we are still discussing the best scoring system. It is my pleasure to announce that the 2015 Champions League will be held in.... BRAZIL!

Here is the promotional poster:

Just a slight concern with total points is the doubling up in British over byes.

If we use Brits to end of Round 12 Total Points scored divided by 2 is 345254.

God damn Levi, your graphics skills... its phenomenal.

Teams that need to win this week in order to qualify for Champions League:

From WXV:
Berlin Brewers, Tokyo Samurai and Beijing Thunder are currently in 6th, 7th and 8th and all have a record of 6-5.
Whilst London Royals, Toronto Wolves, Pacific Islanders and Cape Town Cobras all have 5-6 and could move into the top 8 with a bit of fortune.

From EXV:
Russian Roulettes, Svalbard Valkyries and Spanish Stallions are all fight for the last 2 spots.

From BXV:
Bradford, Oxford and Leeds are all locked on 6-5 and two of these 3 should make it and there are also 3 teams on 5-6 chasing them down.

From AXV:
KL, Bangkok, Bangladesh, Tibet are all on 7-5 and only 2 spots for them.

Quote from: Levi434 on July 02, 2015, 01:20:47 PM
From AXV:
KL, , Bangkok, Bangladesh, Tibet are all on 7-5 and only 2 spots for them.

KL(7th) vs UAE (1st)
Bangladesh (9th) vs Bangkok (8th)
Tibet (10th) vs Manilla (15th)

Going to be tough for my KL boys this week up against JRoo's Tigers

Quote from: Ricochet on July 02, 2015, 01:35:51 PM

Quote from: Levi434 on July 02, 2015, 01:20:47 PM
From AXV:
KL, , Bangkok, Bangladesh, Tibet are all on 7-5 and only 2 spots for them.

KL(7th) vs UAE (1st)
Bangladesh (9th) vs Bangkok (8th)
Tibet (10th) vs Manilla (15th)

Going to be tough for my KL boys this week up against JRoo's Tigers

Ablett's back and so are the Crocs ;)

Qualifiers from British in table order

Winchester Werewolves
Huddersfield Hawks
Hastings Hurricanes
Liverpool Rams
Nottingham Hoods
Bradford Badgers
Swansea Breakers
Oxford Owls

Thanks for that Ringo.

I am currently gathering information and creating the fixtures so they will be out soon. Only 11 days until the Champions League kicks off.

Quote from: Levi434 on July 06, 2015, 07:03:03 PM
Thanks for that Ringo.

I am currently gathering information and creating the fixtures so they will be out soon. Only 11 days until the Champions League kicks off.

Whoo!

If you need anything, just shout  8)

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 06, 2015, 07:31:46 PM

Quote from: Levi434 on July 06, 2015, 07:03:03 PM
Thanks for that Ringo.

I am currently gathering information and creating the fixtures so they will be out soon. Only 11 days until the Champions League kicks off.

Whoo!

If you need anything, just shout  8)

Goes for me too.  Well done.

Wolves sneaking into 8th - the ultimate underdog  8)

The modifiers that will be used for the teams from their respective comps:

Teams from WXV, scores will stay the same.

Teams from EXV, scores will be multiplied by 1.0136

Teams from BXV, scores will be multiplied by 0.9925

Teams from AXV, scores will be multiplied by 0.7693

Cool!

Does this mean that we don't need to take bonuses and penalties out of the scores I.e. the multipliers take care of it?

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 11, 2015, 08:01:54 AM
Cool!

Does this mean that we don't need to take bonuses and penalties out of the scores I.e. the multipliers take care of it?

Assuming that the averages come from the average weekly score in each comp then you have no extra work to do except HGA.

Quote from: PowerBug on July 11, 2015, 11:37:02 AM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 11, 2015, 08:01:54 AM
Cool!

Does this mean that we don't need to take bonuses and penalties out of the scores I.e. the multipliers take care of it?

Assuming that the averages come from the average weekly score in each comp then you have no extra work to do except HGA.

I Think the information we gave Levi were scores including all bonuses (includes HGA) so suspect now modifications of scores to be advised. Levi will confirm in due course I suspect.

There is HGA is every comp so it doesn't matter if we use them or don't use them when determining modifiers.

Quote from: Levi434 on July 11, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
There is HGA is every comp so it doesn't matter if we use them or don't use them when determining modifiers.

I think we are happy with the multipliers you have. But now what happens when we name teams, what bonuses count when calculating scores next week?

Quote from: PowerBug on July 11, 2015, 06:27:05 PM

Quote from: Levi434 on July 11, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
There is HGA is every comp so it doesn't matter if we use them or don't use them when determining modifiers.

I think we are happy with the multipliers you have. But now what happens when we name teams, what bonuses count when calculating scores next week?

Only captains will have bonuses. I will open another thread where you can have the option to name a different team to your XV league. Otherwise your XV league team will be used.

So if you rest a player in your XV you don't have to rest them in Champions League.

Also the 50% OOP will be active.

Here are the Groups:

Group A:
-Belgian Bashers (EXV) - Elephants
-Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers (WXV) - Hellopplz
-Swansea Breakers (BXV) - Ringo
-UAE Tigers (AXV) - JROO8

Group B:
-Liverpool Rams (BXV) - Nige
-Macedonian Wolves (EXV) - Scrads
-Mexico City Suns (WXV) - JROO8
-Mongolian Lambs (AXV) - Toga

Group C:
-Bangladesh Bears (AXV) - Adamant
-Berlin Brewers (WXV) - Purple77
-Huddersfield Hawks (BXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Serbian Eagles (EXV) - Nrich

Group D:
-Australian Ales (AXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Iceland Polar Bears (EXV) - Hellopplz
-Moscow Spetnaz (WXV) - Bane/Torpedo10
-Oxford Owls (BXV) - Vinny

Group E:
-Dublin Destroyers (WXV) - Holz
-Kathmandu Eskimos (AXV) - Powerbug
-Nottingham Hoods (BXV) - LF
-Svalbard Valkyries (EXV) - Ziplock

Group F:
-Hastings Hurricanes (BXV) - Purple77
-New York Revolution (WXV) - Aaronkirk/Raisydaisy
-Sri Lankan Strikers (AXV) - Jayman
-Swiss Storm (EXV) - Nige

Group G:
-English Lions (EXV) - JBs-Hawks
-Kuala Lumpur Crocodiles (AXV) - Ricochet
-Toronto Wolves (WXV) - roo boys!
-Winchester Werewolves (BXV) - Rusty00

Group H:
-Bradford Badgers (BXV) - GoLions
-Christchurch Saints (WXV) - meow meow
-Laos Elephants (AXV) - Nige
-Russian Roulettes (EXV) - Nostradamus/Rids

All groups have 1 team from each of the 4 leagues so they may well be teams you're not so familiar with. There are no easy games in the Champions League, so don't take your opponent lightly.

The quest to be called the best, begins now!

Finally got around to reading this thread

Great work Levi and XV Admin's supporting him :)

Will let AK know about this because we haven't really discussed it yet, but looking forward to participating :D

Laos have already taken a hit with Dylan Shiel gone for the year.  :(

I wonder if there is 4 teams in the Champions League with Nat Fyfe...

Coz I really feel having him as captain is huge advantage :P (bar the last 2 weeks)

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 08:02:32 PM
I wonder if there is 4 teams in the Champions League with Nat Fyfe...

Coz I really feel having him as captain is huge advantage :P (bar the last 2 weeks)

No Nat Fyfe at KL

just Ablett, Pendles, Beams and Sidey ;)

In British Werewolves have Ablett, Fyfe, Priddis, and Hodge

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 08:02:32 PM
I wonder if there is 4 teams in the Champions League with Nat Fyfe...

Coz I really feel having him as captain is huge advantage :P (bar the last 2 weeks)

You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

Serbia - Swansea final coming, just watch 8)

Quote from: nrich102 on July 13, 2015, 09:30:35 PM
Serbia - Swansea final coming, just watch 8)

Neither will make it passed the group stages ;)

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

I dont think any euro team will win. Our comp is too even so there aren't any stand out super teams.

I'm only across WXV, but does anyone reckon they could put together a rough market guide?

No idea who the top teams are - only know that we're not lol

Dublin, Mexico City, PNL, Macedonia, England, Huddersfield, Winchester, KL, Australia and UAE would be the stronger teams

Got three teams in it, I'd hope one can provide a challenge.

I think the Storm will struggle, but the Rams and Laos should do okay.

Quote from: Holz on July 13, 2015, 09:40:28 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

I dont think any euro team will win. Our comp is too even so there aren't any stand out super teams.

my thinking in that is that the comps with over powered teams generally have weaker teams as well, so the multiplier should theoretically correct for that?

My other question (not that it affects me as I only play euros) is why weren't the vice captains factored into the multiplier? With the multiplier it's not as though they'd give a bonus as they would if we used like raw scores or w.e, but if  teams have structured for the VC multiplier to a degree doesn't that impact them?

Quote from: Ricochet on July 13, 2015, 08:18:20 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 08:02:32 PM
I wonder if there is 4 teams in the Champions League with Nat Fyfe...

Coz I really feel having him as captain is huge advantage :P (bar the last 2 weeks)

No Nat Fyfe at KL

just Ablett, Pendles, Beams and Sidey ;)

Lol talk to me when you have Rocky mate, otherwise don't waste my time.

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 10:59:57 PM
Dublin, Mexico City, PNL, Macedonia, England, Huddersfield, Winchester, KL, Australia and UAE would be the stronger teams

From British Liverpool not without a chance as well.

As a guide to British Teams here are the total points scored Year to date for the 8 qualifiers.

Winchester Werewolves   2285
Huddersfield Hawks           2249
Liverpool Rams                   2196
Hastings Hurricanes           2167
Swansea Breakers           2164
Nottingham Hoods           2149
Bradford Badgers                 2148
Oxford Owls                   2129

An all British final will be fine by me just to show we do have the strongest competition  :D

Congratulations to Levi for the draw and running the competition looking at the relative Tables you have done a good job and competition for next stage will be fierce.

Good idea ringo:

Key = Current Ladder Position, Team, Points Scored

1. Dublin Destroyers   2094
2. Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers   1923
7. Berlin Brewers   1898
4. Mexico City Suns   1891
5. Moscow Spetnaz   1855
3. Christchurch Saints   1843
6. New York Revolution   1839
10. Toronto Wolves   1781

(that's right, I'm bloody 7th)

and Asians

2. UAE Tigers  30148
1. Australian Ales  29442
3. Laos Elephants  27956
6. Kuala Lumpur Crocodiles  27492
4. Kathmandu Eskimos  27455
5. Sri Lankan Strikers  27219
8. Bangladesh Bears  27104
7. Mongolian Lambs  26841

Dublin sitting at its weakest point all season with

Selwood Watson Sloane Roughy out.

still reckon I can win this week fairly comfortably though.

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 02:16:06 AM

Quote from: Holz on July 13, 2015, 09:40:28 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

I dont think any euro team will win. Our comp is too even so there aren't any stand out super teams.

my thinking in that is that the comps with over powered teams generally have weaker teams as well, so the multiplier should theoretically correct for that?

My other question (not that it affects me as I only play euros) is why weren't the vice captains factored into the multiplier? With the multiplier it's not as though they'd give a bonus as they would if we used like raw scores or w.e, but if  teams have structured for the VC multiplier to a degree doesn't that impact them?

the weaker teams help make the stronger teams even stronger with the muliplier. The weak teams bring down the average of the comp so if you put it simply.

2: 170 teams
10: 140 teams
2: 110 teams

average 140 with 2 170 powerhouses.

4: 160 teams
6: 140 teams
4: 120 teams

average 140 with 4 160 strong teams.

therefore the more uneven comp being comp 1 should beat comp 2.

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 02:16:06 AM
my thinking in that is that the comps with over powered teams generally have weaker teams as well, so the multiplier should theoretically correct for that?

All the multipler does is correct the differences in the scoring systems, that is all it is designed to do not sure why such a big fuss is made over it. The stronger teams will still be the stronger teams

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 02:16:06 AM
My other question (not that it affects me as I only play euros) is why weren't the vice captains factored into the multiplier? With the multiplier it's not as though they'd give a bonus as they would if we used like raw scores or w.e, but if  teams have structured for the VC multiplier to a degree doesn't that impact them?

I know last week my VC got me an extra 98 points (Picken scored 196). This is probably the highest people will get for VC changes for the year. I feel like it'll be a slight disadvantage but we will run with it. The competition will only improve in future years :)

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 14, 2015, 09:42:57 AM
Good idea ringo:

Key = Current Ladder Position, Team, Points Scored

1. Dublin Destroyers   2094
2. Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers   1923
7. Berlin Brewers   1898
4. Mexico City Suns   1891
5. Moscow Spetnaz   1855
3. Christchurch Saints   1843
6. New York Revolution   1839
10. Toronto Wolves   1781

(that's right, I'm bloody 7th)

Wolves are looking very threatening  8)

3rd for total points score in both BXVs and AXVs.

Gonna have to do better than that to take this out.

Quote from: Holz on July 14, 2015, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 02:16:06 AM

Quote from: Holz on July 13, 2015, 09:40:28 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

I dont think any euro team will win. Our comp is too even so there aren't any stand out super teams.

my thinking in that is that the comps with over powered teams generally have weaker teams as well, so the multiplier should theoretically correct for that?

My other question (not that it affects me as I only play euros) is why weren't the vice captains factored into the multiplier? With the multiplier it's not as though they'd give a bonus as they would if we used like raw scores or w.e, but if  teams have structured for the VC multiplier to a degree doesn't that impact them?

the weaker teams help make the stronger teams even stronger with the muliplier. The weak teams bring down the average of the comp so if you put it simply.

2: 170 teams
10: 140 teams
2: 110 teams

average 140 with 2 170 powerhouses.

4: 160 teams
6: 140 teams
4: 120 teams

average 140 with 4 160 strong teams.

therefore the more uneven comp being comp 1 should beat comp 2.

duhhh. Complete fail by me.

So, why wasn't the average taken just from the top 8 of each comp, if they're the only ones that are competing?

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 05:56:26 PM

Quote from: Holz on July 14, 2015, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: Ziplock on July 14, 2015, 02:16:06 AM

Quote from: Holz on July 13, 2015, 09:40:28 PM

Quote from: Purple 77 on July 13, 2015, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on July 13, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
You probably have one of the toughest groups Purp.

Plus Bangladesh have Fyfe too

:-X

---

Obviously I'd love to win the Champions League, but barring that, I'll be rooting for a Worlds Team to bring it home.

*admin banter begins*

You know, just to prove that my comp is premium and the best ;)

I dont think any euro team will win. Our comp is too even so there aren't any stand out super teams.

my thinking in that is that the comps with over powered teams generally have weaker teams as well, so the multiplier should theoretically correct for that?

My other question (not that it affects me as I only play euros) is why weren't the vice captains factored into the multiplier? With the multiplier it's not as though they'd give a bonus as they would if we used like raw scores or w.e, but if  teams have structured for the VC multiplier to a degree doesn't that impact them?

the weaker teams help make the stronger teams even stronger with the muliplier. The weak teams bring down the average of the comp so if you put it simply.

2: 170 teams
10: 140 teams
2: 110 teams

average 140 with 2 170 powerhouses.

4: 160 teams
6: 140 teams
4: 120 teams

average 140 with 4 160 strong teams.

therefore the more uneven comp being comp 1 should beat comp 2.

duhhh. Complete fail by me.

So, why wasn't the average taken just from the top 8 of each comp, if they're the only ones that are competing?

despite hurting my Dublin its probably better.

So I just did the averages using these numbers and the multipliers

British   worlds   asians   euros
2285   2094   3015   1348
2249   1923   2944   1347
2196   1898   2749   1271
2167   1891   2746   1208
2164   1855   2722   1288
2149   1843   2710   1234
2148   1839   2684   1195
2129   1781   2796   1204

so the raw averages (for points scored this season) are
British: 2185
Worlds: 1891
Asians: 2795
Euros: 1261

So with the mulipliers
British: 2169
Worlds: 1891
Asians: 2151
Euros: 1279

I think (asians?) are skewed because they play during the byes and nobody else does, so their number (I'm estimating) should be around 1840. The euros numbers are only taken from the from 9 euros rounds, rather than 10 (which I think is the number everyone else played?), so their actual average should be around 1400.

That's still a pretty chronically skewed competition... is british that uneven?

BXV also plays through the byes tho

Can take your point though Zip. The bottom 2 in British scores are 1725 and 1734 so you can see a difference of some 400 points to 8th place.

So Maybe to make the comp fair we should use the scores from the Top 8 to work out multipliers. Realise it will disadvantage British if we went that way.

Yes British scores are after 15 rounds as we play through byes. Scores may be skewed by the way we calculate that as well due to the fact that we had to uses average scores for Adelaide Geelong match and then Adelaide scores were doubled up as well due to our method of calculating scores during byes.

No matter what system we use or how to work it out there will always be anomalies due to the subtle differences between the competitions.  Levi has done a good job in working ou a multiplier so lets see how the comp pans out and keep tweaking as necessary each year.

Quote from: LF on July 14, 2015, 06:55:18 PM
BXV also plays through the byes tho

that makes sense, it'd put the scores around like 1860 or something then?

so it's really just euros that's significantly lower than everyone else?

There's a different amount of teams in each competition which makes this pretty hard.

Euros have 14 teams. British and Asians have 16 teams. Worlds have 18 teams.

Just by the amount of good player to go around the Euros comp should be stronger than the others.

I think if we're going to take the Champions League seriously/do it properly in the future all the leagues should have the same amount of teams in.

Only then can you work out a proper multiplier.

Which probably means increasing the Euros league by four teams and introducing two new ones in our British and Asian conferences. Also no offence Holz but a more active admin in the British league could really give it a boost as well.

Quote from: Memphistopheles on July 15, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
There's a different amount of teams in each competition which makes this pretty hard.

Euros have 14 teams. British and Asians have 16 teams. Worlds have 18 teams.

Just by the amount of good player to go around the Euros comp should be stronger than the others.

I think if we're going to take the Champions League seriously/do it properly in the future all the leagues should have the same amount of teams in.

Only then can you work out a proper multiplier.

Which probably means increasing the Euros league by four teams and introducing two new ones in our British and Asian conferences. Also no offence Holz but a more active admin in the British league could really give it a boost as well.

Do you want to take over  ;)

Looking at the debate and going forward my thoughts are:
At the conclusion of the Home and away rounds for each competition the Top 8 from each competition go into champs league and play over 4 weeks knock out based.
Average of the 8 teams total points to be ascertained and multipliers calculated using Worlds as base.
This may get rid of the uneveness of the competition.
Really though no system will be perfect and we work within the parameters ser.

Quote from: Ringo on July 15, 2015, 04:35:06 PM

Quote from: Memphistopheles on July 15, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
There's a different amount of teams in each competition which makes this pretty hard.

Euros have 14 teams. British and Asians have 16 teams. Worlds have 18 teams.

Just by the amount of good player to go around the Euros comp should be stronger than the others.

I think if we're going to take the Champions League seriously/do it properly in the future all the leagues should have the same amount of teams in.

Only then can you work out a proper multiplier.

Which probably means increasing the Euros league by four teams and introducing two new ones in our British and Asian conferences. Also no offence Holz but a more active admin in the British league could really give it a boost as well.

Do you want to take over  ;)

Looking at the debate and going forward my thoughts are:
At the conclusion of the Home and away rounds for each competition the Top 8 from each competition go into champs league and play over 4 weeks knock out based.
Average of the 8 teams total points to be ascertained and multipliers calculated using Worlds as base.
This may get rid of the uneveness of the competition.
Really though no system will be perfect and we work within the parameters ser.

Sorry I meant Euros league Ringo.

You do a great job.

Quote from: Memphistopheles on July 15, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
There's a different amount of teams in each competition which makes this pretty hard.

Euros have 14 teams. British and Asians have 16 teams. Worlds have 18 teams.

Just by the amount of good player to go around the Euros comp should be stronger than the others.

I think if we're going to take the Champions League seriously/do it properly in the future all the leagues should have the same amount of teams in.

Only then can you work out a proper multiplier.

Which probably means increasing the Euros league by four teams and introducing two new ones in our British and Asian conferences. Also no offence Holz but a more active admin in the British league could really give it a boost as well.

The multiplier takes into account the different strengths of the teams in league size.... While our teams will be stronger, the multiplier accounts for that through an equalising ratio, the same way it corrects for the other competition's higher scoring system.

What Ziplock said, it's all accounted for :)

Let's just look forward to the first round of games this weekend :)

So there's a Fyfe vs Fyfe, a Pendles vs Pendles and I just noticed that I'm playing in a Hanners vs Hanners matchup! Any other big names doubling up this week?

Quote from: Memphistopheles on July 15, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
There's a different amount of teams in each competition which makes this pretty hard.

Euros have 14 teams. British and Asians have 16 teams. Worlds have 18 teams.

Just by the amount of good player to go around the Euros comp should be stronger than the others.

I think if we're going to take the Champions League seriously/do it properly in the future all the leagues should have the same amount of teams in.

Only then can you work out a proper multiplier.

Which probably means increasing the Euros league by four teams and introducing two new ones in our British and Asian conferences. Also no offence Holz but a more active admin in the British league could really give it a boost as well.

fair call on the admin thing. But we are staying at 14. Its one of the reasons why our comp is very competitive and the rookie draft in the euro is actually really strong. So drafting is more fun each year.

Zip is screwed though, nobody is touching Dublin this week.

B: Higgins 87, Jacobs 59, T Mckenzie 44, Laird 104
M: Ward 152, Gaff (VC) 100, Caddy 81, Johnson 80
R: Hickey Bastinac 46
F: Ziebell 61, Lynch (GC) 111, Christensen 63, Kelly 70
U: Mundy 99, Cunnington 82

=1,239/15 + C

I believe I have it correct in saying Kelly is Josh Kelly, Johnson is Steve Johnson and Jacobs is Ben Jacobs?

Meanwhile Eskimos are 916/10 with Hanners (C), Picken (VC), Gaff, Greenwood, Jetta to go.

So by my cals if my opposition here get to 1350 (best case) after scaling I need about 800 points from those 5 players :-\

Last weeks opponent: Hanley captain
This weeks opponent: GAJ captain
Next weeks opponent: Goldy captain

Good things come in threes. How's your ACL feeling, Todd?

Quote from: PowerBug on July 25, 2015, 11:35:20 PM
B: Higgins 87, Jacobs 59, T Mckenzie 44, Laird 104
M: Ward 152, Gaff (VC), Caddy 81, Johnson 80
R: Hickey
F: Ziebell 61, Lynch (GC) 111, Christensen 63, Kelly 70
U: Mundy 99, Cunnington 82

=1,093/13 + C

I believe I have it correct in saying Kelly is Josh Kelly, Johnson is Steve Johnson and Jacobs is Ben Jacobs?

Meanwhile Eskimos are 916/10 with Hanners (C), Picken (VC), Gaff, Greenwood, Jetta to go.

So by my cals if my opposition here get to 1350 (best case) after scaling I need about 800 points from those 5 players :-\

yep.

wish I'd seen you do this before I added it up for euros :P

Hickey's out though, so basti comes in the ruck on half points.

My Nicholls/ Hickey/ Giles ruck has been really ineffective these last couple of seasons.

Ok so maybe you'll finish closer to 1300 then. Still a big ask for me. Need a Hanners 150

Quote from: meow meow on July 25, 2015, 11:44:44 PM
Last weeks opponent: Hanley captain
This weeks opponent: GAJ captain
Next weeks opponent: Goldy captain

Good things come in threes. How's your ACL feeling, Todd?

surely your not wishing a injury on a person.

Dublin and Goldy will be fine

I completely forgot about champions league.... I guess working on average 13-14 hours a day during the week at the moment is getting to me

Quote from: AaronKirk on July 26, 2015, 01:20:07 AM
I completely forgot about champions league.... I guess working on average 13-14 hours a day during the week at the moment is getting to me

haha, I misread that as 13-14 hours a week, and was like, dude. :P

Svalbard Valkyries: 1,255.8504
Kathmandu Eskimos: 1,356.2759

So assuming Dublin beat Nottingham (Which the cocky manager claimed he had before the week) the Eskimos are through to the knockout stages :D

Quote from: PowerBug on July 26, 2015, 10:21:23 PM
Svalbard Valkyries: 1,255.8504
Kathmandu Eskimos: 1,356.2759

So assuming Dublin beat Nottingham (Which the cocky manager claimed he had before the week) the Eskimos are through to the knockout stages :D

I don't know the score but I knew the result when the fixture was announced.

Dublin Destroyed Nottingham

KL are stuffed now. Libba already gone, but GaJ, Stevens and most likely Beams gone as well hurts

Teams Remaining:

WXV:
Berlin Brewers
Christchurch Saints
Dublin Destroyers
Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers

EXV:

BXV:
Bradford Badgers

AXV:
Bangladesh Bears
Kathmandu Eskimos
United Arab Emirates Tigers



No teams left from EXV and 4 from WXV! Does this surprise anyone? Certainly surprises me. What does this say about the various XV comps? I expected that EXV, being the smallest league would have the most people getting through. Maybe they didn't due to their comp being too even?

Purple and BB would be happy with their teams making it this far and Ringo as well as all of BXV are now firmly behind Bradford.

I don't think its a measure of evenness... just a measure of being the best  ;)

No surprises here, had full confidence we'd dominant, probably with Dublin the favourite to take it out.  8)

Could mean the factors are screwed a little.  But great effort with the comp Levi and would like to see it continue with some refinements,

The Europe is the most even comp I knew nobody had any ahot. Serbia maybe in years past but I fixed that.

Quote from: Levi434 on August 10, 2015, 08:42:53 PM

No teams left from EXV and 4 from WXV! Does this surprise anyone? Certainly surprises me. What does this say about the various XV comps? I expected that EXV, being the smallest league would have the most people getting through. Maybe they didn't due to their comp being too even?

The size of the leagues are accounted for in the multipliers, which work really well in that regard.

Quote from: Holz on August 10, 2015, 10:24:07 PM
The Europe is the most even comp I knew nobody had any ahot. Serbia maybe in years past but I fixed that.

yeah, I honestly think next year that the champion league should probably only use the teams in the top 8 from each comp progressing through for the multiplier. Should remove the disparity.