I don't mind doing a similar thing for Worlds but with the Domestic cricket?
Have to give it thought
I would be interested, both in participating and admin/modding it. :)
Participation could be an option for me. :)
Gotta say, struggling to come up with a concept...
Individual tournaments have too few players or are structured crazily to make a week v week thing viable...
Base idea:
- Each team picks a squad, and choose a XI players for a particular month.
For every T20I - your player scores 1 point per run and 20 points per wicket.
For every ODI - your player scores 2 points per run and 40 points per wicket
For every Test - your player scores 4 points per run and 80 points per wicket
.... but really struggling!
Say, if you take the Sheffield shield for instance, that's only 66 players playing in any given round.. the BBL is only 88 players... hard to get a XV concept going with only those kind of numbers..
Any thoughts?
Yeah Oss, when I saw the board and what m0nty wrote, I immediately tried thinking of a concept but struggled and unfortunately I've got nothing. :(
If we could get a good concept going I'd definitely be in
It's probably too late but I was thinking of something similar for the BBL. A super 8 tourney. Sort of like 8 teams, 15 man squads, you have to have to field 3 batsmen 3 bowlers a 'keeper and an AR, with scoring going by the BBL fantasy scoring
With a bit of thought and planning, we could potentially get something going for the World Cup or next Big Bash.
Maybe we could try doing something a bit like V League?? Would probably be too late to start something this season, but think we could do it next season. Maybe a world cup thing as well?
Say maybe we could just have like 5 teams for a BBL comp. Tough to come up with ideas though.
World Cup shouldv be our next aim.
Yep, gotta aim for the World Cup somehow.
So there are 14 teams in the world cup, so we could do a ten team comp.
How I see it working;
There are 2 pools of 5 teams, and each team plays each team in their pool and has a bye. So that's 5 rounds, and then the top 2 from each group go into a finals series.
Maybe we bid on players to see who goes to each team?
Thoughts?
Bidding didn't work well when we tried to do that in previous cricket things, it became a race to see who could bid before the deadline.
Drafting would be the best way, But you can't do that until the squads are released.
Quote from: PowerBug on December 13, 2014, 07:37:37 PM
Bidding didn't work well when we tried to do that in previous cricket things, it became a race to see who could bid before the deadline.
Drafting would be the best way, But you can't do that until the squads are released.
Wasn't really a problem in the V League iirc.
Yeah, drafting is probably better, just thinking of keeping it sort of realistic.
Again I'm thinking Super 8. 10 teams....say 12 man squads starting 3 bat 3 bowl 1 WK 1 AR
Points (generally looking at the fantasy BBL scoring and adjusting for 50 overs here)
1 point per run
Runs Scored Bonus
50-75 : 10 points
75-100: 15 points
100+: 25 points
Duck -20 (Except Bowlers)
Strike Rate (need to score 30+ to qualify)
100.1 - 115.0 +5
115.1-130.0 +10
130.1-140.0 +15
140.1+ +25
Wickets 20 points
Maidens 5 points
Economy Rate (Must bowl 5 overs to qualify)
Under 4.00 RPO - 20 points
4.01- 5.00 - 10 points
7.00 - 8.00 - -5 points
8.00+ - -15 points'
5 wickets+ in a match : 25 points
Catch - 10 points
Direct Hit Runout - 15 points
Stumping - 15 points
I think I like that idea BP.
Just with the scoring maybe make it 1 point per every 2 or 3 runs? Just think that with 1 point for every 5 runs, a batsman would need to score 100 runs to get the same score as a bowler who takes one wicket. I actually think that a point per run is fair enough.
Quote from: nrich102 on December 13, 2014, 09:17:08 PM
I think I like that idea BP.
Just with the scoring maybe make it 1 point per every 2 or 3 runs? Just think that with 1 point for every 5 runs, a batsman would need to score 100 runs to get the same score as a bowler who takes one wicket. I actually think that a point per run is fair enough.
Point per run works too
There is bound to be a WC fantasy game somewhere (cricinfo?) so we could copy that scoring system
Yeah, there definitely will be.
If this gets up and running... I'm defs in. Looks fun.
Quote from: PowerBug on December 14, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
There is bound to be a WC fantasy game somewhere (cricinfo?) so we could copy that scoring system
My issue is that any comp we come up with would need to be better than doing just one of the thousands online...
The point of the XV competitions is that they last indefinitely... not just for any given tournament...
Quote from: ossie85 on December 14, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on December 14, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
There is bound to be a WC fantasy game somewhere (cricinfo?) so we could copy that scoring system
My issue is that any comp we come up with would need to be better than doing just one of the thousands online...
The point of the XV competitions is that they last indefinitely... not just for any given tournament...
I think we should get one just going for this World Cup as a trial of what we fan do in the future.
Quote from: nrich102 on December 14, 2014, 11:06:56 PM
Quote from: ossie85 on December 14, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on December 14, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
There is bound to be a WC fantasy game somewhere (cricinfo?) so we could copy that scoring system
My issue is that any comp we come up with would need to be better than doing just one of the thousands online...
The point of the XV competitions is that they last indefinitely... not just for any given tournament...
I think we should get one just going for this World Cup as a trial of what we fan do in the future.
We'd need to have some idea of what the future is though.... Otherwise we may as well use the existing fantasy games
Quote from: ossie85 on December 15, 2014, 06:12:35 AM
Quote from: nrich102 on December 14, 2014, 11:06:56 PM
Quote from: ossie85 on December 14, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on December 14, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
There is bound to be a WC fantasy game somewhere (cricinfo?) so we could copy that scoring system
My issue is that any comp we come up with would need to be better than doing just one of the thousands online...
The point of the XV competitions is that they last indefinitely... not just for any given tournament...
I think we should get one just going for this World Cup as a trial of what we fan do in the future.
We'd need to have some idea of what the future is though.... Otherwise we may as well use the existing fantasy games
^^ exactly
sorry little late to the party but been busy lately
but how is te hard part
with different formats and different series etc how to tie it all in
Maybe with the BBL comp we want to do, we could have an initial daft and then from there work by a salary cap? So we have an initial draft with all the players playing this year and then from there work on signing new players for ones who don't play the next season.
I think we could have an initial draft based on the players this season, and then work from there.
I think a players salary could be their previous seasons average multiplied by 5000. (Eg. Aaron Finch averaged 55.67 last season, so his salary this season would be $278,350.) We could then have a salary cap of $2,000,000.
Or maybe for new players salary we could find what BBL Fantasy has their average as. (eg. Kevin Pietersen didn't play last season but BBL Fantasy has his price at $93,500, so they predict he will average 50).
Sorry if it doesn't make sense, just some quick thoughts.
We could do a bidding system but instead of have a time-deadline make it you are only allowed to bid once so there is none of this last minute bartering (would have to be a 'silent' auction obviously, otherwise the next person will just bid minimum over the last person).
I don't think it's the selection of players that is the issue, but the format
Sheffield Shield only? Or maybe include the Matador Cup and Big Bash if we have to?
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 09:02:39 PM
Sheffield Shield only? Or maybe include the Matador Cup and Big Bash if we have to?
Id be keen on Matador Cup and Shield Combo.
I would like to include the BBL as well, but squads are too different. Let me try and think of a format we could have it in.
Quote from: nrich102 on January 15, 2015, 10:07:49 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 09:02:39 PM
Sheffield Shield only? Or maybe include the Matador Cup and Big Bash if we have to?
Id be keen on Matador Cup and Shield Combo.
I would like to include the BBL as well, but squads are too different. Let me try and think of a format we could have it in.
But if we're using the players, then the squads wouldn't matter.
Quote from: Nige on January 15, 2015, 10:32:27 PM
Quote from: nrich102 on January 15, 2015, 10:07:49 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 09:02:39 PM
Sheffield Shield only? Or maybe include the Matador Cup and Big Bash if we have to?
Id be keen on Matador Cup and Shield Combo.
I would like to include the BBL as well, but squads are too different. Let me try and think of a format we could have it in.
But if we're using the players, then the squads wouldn't matter.
What about all the international players who come over for the BBL, as well as the retired one (Eg. Hussey) who just play Big Bash?
Let's say we go across all three Australian Domestic competitions. What can happen is you draft a squad of say, 10-15 players, which you use for Sheffield Shield and Matador Cup. Then prior to the Big Bash, there is either a bid or a draft again for managers to pick up 3-4 T20 only players. These could be Internationals or they can be undrafted state players
There are obviously complications here. Only 6 teams in the cup, so if we have more than 6 teams, then we can't be starting 11 players each, it won't work. Maybe it could be a VII's game, where we each 7 players, and the structure can vary (e.g. 3 bats, 1 keep, 3 bowl. Or 2 bats, 2AR 1 keep, 2 bowl)
There can obviously be variations on the exact numbers we choose from here, but that seems like a potential worker for this comp.
Edit: There will be interest in this no doubt, so we might want to make a 8 team league. On any given round there are 66 State players playing. In BBL there are 88. If we had 8 teams with 6 playing players in them, that means there's 18 spare players going around, which seems a fair number. The poor team should still be able to fill their first 6.
Come BBL time, we crank it up. Maybe turn it to an 8 player list, and draft off about another 4 rounds of players. This would require 64 players, and as 88 play, that is 24 left over, which should account for things like byes and DGW's.
Another issue we have is timing. It's currently middle of the season and BBL is over. So if we were to start and draft, we are either in the dark for 7 months waiting, or we have to wait and draft at a later date when the 2015-16 squads get revealed.
It'll be tough to do, especially since the interest levels will be close to if not the same as the AFL draft comps, but with under half the selection pool of players.
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
Another issue we have is timing. It's currently middle of the season and BBL is over. So if we were to start and draft, we are either in the dark for 7 months waiting, or we have to wait and draft at a later date when the 2015-16 squads get revealed.
It'll be tough to do, especially since the interest levels will be close to if not the same as the AFL draft comps, but with under half the selection pool of players.
Yeah, that's quite a problem too. Cricket's basically all year round unlike footy which has an offseason.
Quote from: Nige on January 15, 2015, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
Another issue we have is timing. It's currently middle of the season and BBL is over. So if we were to start and draft, we are either in the dark for 7 months waiting, or we have to wait and draft at a later date when the 2015-16 squads get revealed.
It'll be tough to do, especially since the interest levels will be close to if not the same as the AFL draft comps, but with under half the selection pool of players.
Yeah, that's quite a problem too. Cricket's basically all year round unlike footy which has an offseason.
What I'm suggesting though isn't all year round, it is just the Australian Domestic, nothing else. You could always do the English domestic as there are so many more players to choose from (198), but the interest and knowledge will be a lot lower.
What I suggest is basically how the XV's run now, and with the added component for the different leagues.
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Nige on January 15, 2015, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 15, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
Another issue we have is timing. It's currently middle of the season and BBL is over. So if we were to start and draft, we are either in the dark for 7 months waiting, or we have to wait and draft at a later date when the 2015-16 squads get revealed.
It'll be tough to do, especially since the interest levels will be close to if not the same as the AFL draft comps, but with under half the selection pool of players.
Yeah, that's quite a problem too. Cricket's basically all year round unlike footy which has an offseason.
What I'm suggesting though isn't all year round, it is just the Australian Domestic, nothing else. You could always do the English domestic as there are so many more players to choose from (198), but the interest and knowledge will be a lot lower.
What I suggest is basically how the XV's run now, and with the added component for the different leagues.
Oh, I know what you meant. I was kinda adding on to what you said about it being middle of the season.
What do others think of this? I might put this idea in a new thread or something, because I like it (Obviously, being my idea)
I think I'd just go for the Australian competitions at first, but maybe going overseas later, in further seasons?
Will post this here, rather than in PBs thread.
We will need different scoring systems over the 3 comps. For the BBL we can use the current scoring system, and I have come up with a system we can use for the Shield competition. Feel free to suggest changes to the scoring system.
Action = points
1 run = 1 point
Duck (excluding bowlers) = -20
Not out (Has to face 5 balls min) = 5
Strike rate bonus (Must score 25 runs to qualify)
Strike rate of 50-75= 10
Strike rate of 75-100 = 25
Strike rate of 100+ = 50
Wicket = 15
Maiden over = 5
Economy rate bonus (Must bowl at least 5 overs)
Less than 2 rpo = 25
2.01-3.99 rpo = 10
Catch = 15
Run Out = 30
Stumping (WK) = 30
To put the system to the test, I put New South Wales' scores from this game (http://www.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2014-15/engine/match/754883.html) into scores. (May be out a little as NSW got totally smashed)
Player Score
Larkin 35
Carters 87
Henry 115
Patterson 100
Rohrer 97
Neville 177
Jackson 28
Lalor 37
Sandhu 81
Somerville 27
Hazlewood 166
Average 86.364
I will look at doing the Victorian innings tomorrow, but tired now.
Thoughts?
I think you guys are onto something good here.
Done up the Victorian innings, fair to say they scored a little different
Player Score
Quiney 143
King -7
Stoinis 246
Hussey 189
Wade 144
Handscomb 153
Christian 160
Hastings 130
Boland 155
Fawad Ahmed 190
Tremain 95
Average 145.273
I'll have a look at a game where it ended in a draw for some other scores.
I remember when cricinfo had their fantasy game for the test series, they gave out points not for strike rate and economy, but for milestones. So 50, 100, 3 wickets, 5 wickets (Can't remember the points exactly). And then also 100 points for the official MOTM.
Quote from: PowerBug on January 16, 2015, 09:46:49 AM
I remember when cricinfo had their fantasy game for the test series, they gave out points not for strike rate and economy, but for milestones. So 50, 100, 3 wickets, 5 wickets (Can't remember the points exactly). And then also 100 points for the official MOTM.
I don't really like that sort of system. Think we should keep to a system similar to what the BBL uses, or else it would be too different for all the different formats.
Done up the scores for this game (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-domestic-2014-15/engine/match/754895.html), which ended in a draw.
Player Score
WA
Bancroft 84
Harris 25
Klinger 155
Marsh 90
Whiteman 92
Agar 191
Rimmington 107
Tye 120
Mackin 190
Hogan 104
Average 115.8
Tasmania
Silk 43
Cowan 85
Doolan 41
Wells 104
Dunk 36
Faulkner 239
Paine 70
Rose 93
Hilfenhaus 165
Rainbird 180
Fekete 207
Average 114.8
So here the scores are much similar. Over the 2 matches I've done so far, the average player score is roughly 95.
So thoughts on this scoring system?
Quote from: nrich102 on January 16, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 16, 2015, 09:46:49 AM
I remember when cricinfo had their fantasy game for the test series, they gave out points not for strike rate and economy, but for milestones. So 50, 100, 3 wickets, 5 wickets (Can't remember the points exactly). And then also 100 points for the official MOTM.
I don't really like that sort of system. Think we should keep to a system similar to what the BBL uses, or else it would be too different for all the different formats.
What you have is different to BBL already though. They are different competitions, so they can have different scoring. THey have scoring that suits the game.
Quote from: PowerBug on January 16, 2015, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: nrich102 on January 16, 2015, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 16, 2015, 09:46:49 AM
I remember when cricinfo had their fantasy game for the test series, they gave out points not for strike rate and economy, but for milestones. So 50, 100, 3 wickets, 5 wickets (Can't remember the points exactly). And then also 100 points for the official MOTM.
I don't really like that sort of system. Think we should keep to a system similar to what the BBL uses, or else it would be too different for all the different formats.
What you have is different to BBL already though. They are different competitions, so they can have different scoring. THey have scoring that suits the game.
I just said similar. One way of putting it would be I want it to as much like the AFL DT scoring system as possible. Maybe it's just I don't like change, but I think it's the best dort of way to do it.
Another idea is we do this for International Cricket, but beware, this will be a lot more complicated, and there will be no off season.
There are 10 test nations, and they all play at different intervals. What could happen is, we draft/bid out as many International players as you want (Bid would work better as we can have a salary cap and then work from there). Then what happens, is at every series, you select players to go out and play, maybe 6-8 players, and then poitns awarded etc...
This is the best option there is for an ongoing International comp, it would take a lot of time to set up, and VERY committed managers that are able to follow cricket all over the world basically to have a good chance of winning.
I may have explained that badly, but it would be tough to do, the Domestic comp seems more realistic.
Best to keep it simple with the Aussie domestic scene, much easier to follow and a lot more accessible.
Quote from: Nige on January 16, 2015, 09:26:35 PM
Best to keep it simple with the Aussie domestic scene, much easier to follow and a lot more accessible.
This is what I remember from cricinfo's fantasy points scheme for test matches:
Batting:
- 1 point per run
- 20 points for reaching 50
- 50 points for reaching 100
- -10 for getting out (Except Bowlers)
- -10 for a Duck (Everyone)
Bowlers:
- 20 points per wicket
- 20 points for 3 wicket haul
- 50 points for 5 wicket haul
- 1 point per maiden
General:
- 10 points per catch
- 10 points per Stumping
- 15 points per runout (Last player)
- 100 points for official MOTM
There must've been something else, and those bonuses seem a little odd, but that was the jist of it. It was -10 for getting out, and -10 for ducks also, so a duck was -20, and getting 1 was still -9 fantasy points. I remember that bit. We could maybe remove the MOTM but add in something like +25 for being part of the winning team? Idk, these are thoughts atm. :)
Yeah, that's a good start.
The more I think of it the more I start to like your system PB. Don't think we should have MOTM points, but a bonus for being in a winning team could work, as long as it wasn't to large, maybe 15 points?
Also think it should be more than 1 point per maiden.
I think a maiden's scoring would have to vary from format to format.
Bowling a maiden in T20 is much more difficult than a maiden in Test cricket.
Perhaps have 3 different comps for the 3 different Australian domestic comps? This would mean less coaches miss out (rather than having just say one 8 team comp) and also means you can draft specifically for that comp rather than trying to pick a player who would benefit you across 2 or 3 different comps. Also would help cater for the vastly different player pool in the BBL.
I'd be keen to participate particularly in a Shield competition.
Quote from: Scrads on January 17, 2015, 02:06:06 AM
Perhaps have 3 different comps for the 3 different Australian domestic comps? This would mean less coaches miss out (rather than having just say one 8 team comp) and also means you can draft specifically for that comp rather than trying to pick a player who would benefit you across 2 or 3 different comps. Also would help cater for the vastly different player pool in the BBL.
I'd be keen to participate particularly in a Shield competition.
The problem is, I don't think we will have enough people who would be interested across all 3 competitions.
I think that when it comes to big bash we add 2 more teams and have a redraft of the players, maybe letting the 8 teams in the One Day/shield comps keep one player. I also think more people would be interested in a BBL comp, with there being an official fantasy league for that.
I also think we should have some sort of salary cap, just to keep the teams even, but we'd need to know the scoring system we'd be using.
Quote from: Scrads on January 17, 2015, 02:06:06 AM
Perhaps have 3 different comps for the 3 different Australian domestic comps? This would mean less coaches miss out (rather than having just say one 8 team comp) and also means you can draft specifically for that comp rather than trying to pick a player who would benefit you across 2 or 3 different comps. Also would help cater for the vastly different player pool in the BBL.
I'd be keen to participate particularly in a Shield competition.
We could, but that depends on interest. So far I can't see enough names to warrant splitting leagues up. I've messaged a few, and I think we will get around 10, which will have to be cut to 8 senior managers.
You won't have to rely too much on drafting for the BBL in the initial draft, as for the BBL there would be a separate draft where we can pick up T20 only players, probably up to 4 of them.
Quote from: nrich102 on January 16, 2015, 10:45:24 PM
The more I think of it the more I start to like your system PB. Don't think we should have MOTM points, but a bonus for being in a winning team could work, as long as it wasn't to large, maybe 15 points?
Also think it should be more than 1 point per maiden.
For the 50 over cup, I think the Strike Rate and Economy bonuses are better, just altered to suit the slower scoring. And MOTM could only work if they release an official MOTM, I haven't checked to see if they do in the Shield.
Quote from: Nige on January 16, 2015, 10:47:45 PM
I think a maiden's scoring would have to vary from format to format.
Bowling a maiden in T20 is much more difficult than a maiden in Test cricket.
Yep, for sure. I think it's 12 in the BBL. And maybe best to make it 6 for the Matador Cup.
I like the look of this competition, it would be good to have a XVs style comp for domestic cricket.
I think the scoring systems for the different competitions should vary a little, and it's a good idea to have points for milestones in the Shield.
I'm not such a fan of splitting it up into three different comps, it just becomes a lot of work for everyone and half the XVs comps as it is barely have enough active coaches.
Quote from: Nige on January 17, 2015, 10:31:24 AM
I'm not such a fan of splitting it up into three different comps, it just becomes a lot of work for everyone and half the XVs comps as it is barely have enough active coaches.
This. Maybe we should add a couple of teams in for the Big Bash though, because I can see it getting more interest than shield/matador cup.
What are the thoughts on having a salary cap? I think we should have one, just for the evenness of the competition. Salary Cap would have to vary from T20 to Matador/Shield though.
Another problem we have is that there are only 8 rounds of Big Bash, so not every team would get to play eachother, and I wouldn't think we'd want to include finals games.
I like the idea of having one team across three formats, it means you have to have players suited to all forms of the game, so there is a bit of diversity in squads.
Maybe it would be worth making them different for the Big Bash though, to keep more with how it works in real life.
I'd also say no salary cap to start with, to see how the competition works without it to start.
Yeah, I was thinking it may be best to introduce the salary cap later on.
I think we will be drafting new squads for the Big Bash, just because the squads are so different.
I have an idea on how to introduce a salary cap, but it would be a real salary cap (i.e. you will bid for players)
I reckon this could start up. I will be happy to run it, and I think it might be worth opening up interest to people :)
P.S. Don't expect a simple draft game, if you want that, then go play AFL ones
Quote from: PowerBug on January 17, 2015, 08:07:01 PM
I have an idea on how to introduce a salary cap, but it would be a real salary cap (i.e. you will bid for players)
It would work on a players average, multiplied by a random number we pull out of the sky. Think I've said something about it somewhere before in this thread.
Quote from: nrich102 on January 17, 2015, 10:00:17 PM
Quote from: PowerBug on January 17, 2015, 08:07:01 PM
I have an idea on how to introduce a salary cap, but it would be a real salary cap (i.e. you will bid for players)
It would work on a players average, multiplied by a random number we pull out of the sky. Think I've said something about it somewhere before in this thread.
What I had thought of is the following:
Give everyone X dollars (Let's say $5 million), and what happens is a private auction takes place. A deadline is set for two days (example), and in this time every manager has the option to bid for up to 5 players. Each player will contain a minimum bid option. End of the two days the respective coaches get their players and the money gets taken away from them. This process repeats until every manager has the squad they are after. These squads may not be of equal number but it is irrelevant, the amount of players a manager wants is up to them.
The leftover money does not go to waste, at will be stored and then once the BBL bidding comes around, they will have more to spend. So spending your whole balance on shield players would mean no money to bring in imports.
The reason I suggest this and not a draft is because where in cricket is there a draft that takes place? All I see is bidding for players.
I think thats a good idea PB. I can see that working well.