Just opening this up to discussion about who needs to go, who should be upgraded and what type of trades and draftees should be considered for next season.
Senior List
Jarryd Roughead
Jordan Lewis
Matthew Suckling
Sam Mitchell
Josh Gibson
Michael Osborne
Xavier Ellis
Shaun Burgoyne
Bradley Hill
Brendan Whitecross
Brad Sewell
Kyle Cheney
Grant Birchall
Luke Hodge
Isaac Smith
Brian Lake
Brent Guerra
Jack Gunston
David Hale
Shane Savage
Luke Breust
Lance Franklin
Ben Stratton
Ryan Schoenmakers
Liam Shiels
Matt Spangher
Paul Puopolo
Luke Lowden
Angus Litherland
Jonathan Simpkin
Cyril Rioli
Jordan Kelly
Sam Grimley
Alex Woodward
Jed Anderson
Mitch Hallahan
Max Bailey
Tim O'Brien
Taylor Duryea
Kaiden Brand
Rookies
Andrew Boseley
The lightly built second-year defender has spent much of the season in the VFL reserves, with fellow backmen such as Matt Spangher, Kyle Cheney, Jordan Kelly and Angus Litherland ahead of him in Box Hill's seniors. But, according to Hawks' head of football Chris Fagan, Boseley has shown some good signs of late. "His last couple of weeks, he's played senior [VFL] footy and he's done his job quite well," Fagan said.
Jonathon Ceglar
The Hawks have been pleased with the 204cm ruckman's first season at the club, after selecting him in the rookie draft following delisting by Collingwood. He has earned two AFL games, and has played some excellent football for Box Hill, demonstrating rucking nous plus an ability to take a mark up forward. "He shows a lot of promise - we're very happy with him," Fagan said.
Amos Frank
Hawthorn's second-year project player from the remote Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in northern South Australia, Frank played some good games early in the season, but a medial ligament injury sidelined him throughout July and has hampered his progress since. Will be given every opportunity to impress over the closing rounds and finals of the VFL season, but time is running out.
Will Langford
The son of 303-game Hawthorn champion Chris, Langford made his AFL debut against the Western Bulldogs in round 17. A hard-at-it player with excellent endurance, the 21-year-old has thrived in the VFL as a run-with midfielder since switching from half-back. An injury-free run has also helped. "His development has been fantastic this year; we think we've got a player," Fagan said. "We're really excited about the future with him." It wouldn't be a complete shock to see Langford win promotion to the senior list in 2014.
Derick Wanganeen
In his third season on the Hawks' rookie list and still yet to make his AFL debut, the South Australian started the year in hot and cold form as a small forward. But a switch to half-back, suggested by development coach Cameron Bruce, has given Wanganeen hope of extending his career at the club. "His last month has been outstanding - he's turned his season around," Fagan said. "He looks like a very confident player playing at half-back."
Just read that Mav Weller is possibly looking for a trade to the Hawks but Brisbane are keen on him too. Also it's claimed Taylor Adams is more interested in going to Richmond, Carlton or North.
Seems Lowden will be delisted
Ellis will retire, be traded or even delisted
Ossie will retire
Like our back up rookie rucks previosuly (Skipper,Paul Johnson,Macualey) Ceg will most likely be delisted
Hopefully Langford gets upgraded and i think Wanganeen has to be upgraded to if we want him to stay
I think after 3 years on the rookie list we either need to upgrade Wanganeen or delist him and then re-draft him.
Not really sure about delistings, trades, etc. Obviously we need some young midfielders to develop for when the likes of Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell retire. I don't think we have much to use as trade bait though.
What sort of players is Alex Woodward? Inside or outside midfielder? Would be good if he could get an injury free run at things.
Quote from: Rusty00 on August 22, 2013, 10:00:08 AM
I think after 3 years on the rookie list we either need to upgrade Wanganeen or delist him and then re-draft him.
Not really sure about delistings, trades, etc. Obviously we need some young midfielders to develop for when the likes of Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell retire. I don't think we have much to use as trade bait though.
What sort of players is Alex Woodward? Inside or outside midfielder? Would be good if he could get an injury free run at things.
Have a look. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7IGLqp0oy0) In and under midfielder, really good player when fit. From what I know, the Hawks love him. I've stated this a million times, but I've seen him play a few times as we went to the same school and he was usually one of the best on ground every week.
Quote from: NigeyS on August 22, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
Quote from: Rusty00 on August 22, 2013, 10:00:08 AM
I think after 3 years on the rookie list we either need to upgrade Wanganeen or delist him and then re-draft him.
Not really sure about delistings, trades, etc. Obviously we need some young midfielders to develop for when the likes of Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell retire. I don't think we have much to use as trade bait though.
What sort of players is Alex Woodward? Inside or outside midfielder? Would be good if he could get an injury free run at things.
Have a look. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7IGLqp0oy0) In and under midfielder, really good player when fit. From what I know, the Hawks love him. I've stated this a million times, but I've seen him play a few times as we went to the same school and he was usually one of the best on ground every week.
Cheers for the info :)
No worries mate, I'm a big supporter of his, even if he doesn't really know it. My school's community has always been pretty tight and we always support our Old Boys. 8) Haven't had too many hugely successful players to come through, hopefully Woodward and Arnot do well.
Would you guys like Karnizis? He wants to go down south.
Quote from: nrich102 on August 30, 2013, 06:20:24 AM
Would you guys like Karnizis? He wants to go down south.
Don't know enough about him to know for sure how he would fit or who's spot he would take/challenge for. What would it take in a trade to get him? If he has been languishing away in the NEAFL not making the Brisbane side I can't picture him being worth too much (no offence intended haha). Second round pick? Third round pick? Someone like Xavier Ellis?
As for an overall team perspective:
Osborne
Ellis
Cheney
From our senior list would be the ones under fire. Some young guys like Litherland, Kelly, Lowden and Hallahan could also be under some pressure. I have never seen any of these guys play apart from a few NAB games each and haven't been tracking their progress at VFL level so don't really know where they are at in their footy. Woodward I would say they will probably persist with judging by the patience they showed with Max Bailey.
I think Grimmers has saved himself this year, earnt himself at least another year I would think.
This in mind, I only have a very vague idea of who is actually contracted for next year and who isn't.
Quote from: Scrads on August 30, 2013, 12:33:38 PM
Quote from: nrich102 on August 30, 2013, 06:20:24 AM
Would you guys like Karnizis? He wants to go down south.
Don't know enough about him to know for sure how he would fit or who's spot he would take/challenge for. What would it take in a trade to get him? If he has been languishing away in the NEAFL not making the Brisbane side I can't picture him being worth too much (no offence intended haha). Second round pick? Third round pick? Someone like Xavier Ellis?
The Lions don't want to play him cause he wont be there next year,
Jordan Kelly and Mitch Hallahan should be retained for another year, they'll be good replacements once guys like Guerra, Lake, Sewell and Mitchell move on. Am I right in saying that Hawthorn fans (who know a bit about their list)?
Guerra missed this week with back soreness again I think. You'd have to wonder whether he'll hang up the boots at the end of the year. They seem to have been managing him through this year.
Quote from: Rusty00 on August 31, 2013, 04:07:08 PM
Guerra missed this week with back soreness again I think. You'd have to wonder whether he'll hang up the boots at the end of the year. They seem to have been managing him through this year.
Yeah wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case, he's been a great servant for the club but is not getting any younger and may want to call it quits after this year, especially if we won the premiership as it would be a very nice way to go out.
Mav Weller?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/wm08xc.jpg)
^ seems a little surprising that the Suns delisted him.
Quote from: Rusty00 on September 02, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
^ seems a little surprising that the Suns delisted him.
Yeah, very highly rated as a 17yo but fell out of favour and couldn't lock down a place. Surely someone will pick him up, maybe even in a rookie spot even if we don't.
The Swans will take another player like JPK off your hands if you cant find a place for them
Quote from: tabs on September 02, 2013, 11:04:14 PM
The Swans will take another player like JPK off your hands if you cant find a place for them
Xavier Ellis it is then. Good doing business with you :)
Quote from: NigeyS on August 31, 2013, 10:31:36 AM
Jordan Kelly and Mitch Hallahan should be retained for another year, they'll be good replacements once guys like Guerra, Lake, Sewell and Mitchell move on. Am I right in saying that Hawthorn fans (who know a bit about their list)?
Mitch Halllahan was joint winner of the VFL JJ Liston Trophy winner last night. Looks like promising for the future :)
Quote from: Rusty00 on September 03, 2013, 07:45:55 AM
Quote from: tabs on September 02, 2013, 11:04:14 PM
The Swans will take another player like JPK off your hands if you cant find a place for them
Xavier Ellis it is then. Good doing business with you :)
Thats fine. Look what we turned JPK and McGlynn into. We will gladly do that to Ellis as well.
Quote from: tabs on September 03, 2013, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: Rusty00 on September 03, 2013, 07:45:55 AM
Quote from: tabs on September 02, 2013, 11:04:14 PM
The Swans will take another player like JPK off your hands if you cant find a place for them
Xavier Ellis it is then. Good doing business with you :)
Thats fine. Look what we turned JPK and McGlynn into. We will gladly do that to Ellis as well.
I wouldn't be surprised at all, he has heaps of talent just can't stay on the park :(
Quote from: Rusty00 on September 03, 2013, 01:52:02 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on August 31, 2013, 10:31:36 AM
Jordan Kelly and Mitch Hallahan should be retained for another year, they'll be good replacements once guys like Guerra, Lake, Sewell and Mitchell move on. Am I right in saying that Hawthorn fans (who know a bit about their list)?
Mitch Halllahan was joint winner of the VFL JJ Liston Trophy winner last night. Looks like promising for the future :)
Yesss! Good on him! I really hope the Hawks get some games into him next season.
2013 Offseason News @theafloffseason 1h
Cameron Luke from AFL Trade Week Radio says that Xavier Ellis is likely to land at Fremantle, after being offered a two-year deal.
Quote from: NigeyS on September 30, 2013, 01:26:20 PM
2013 Offseason News @theafloffseason 1h
Cameron Luke from AFL Trade Week Radio says that Xavier Ellis is likely to land at Fremantle, after being offered a two-year deal.
I like him, but can't get his body right and maybe a fresh start would be good for him, will do well I hope. When fit may be just in our best 22, but no huge loss I don't think, would prefer him to stay though. His 2008 grand final was easily his best game and is imprinted in my memory :) but has struggled with fitness since then.
Apparantly we might not offer Hallahan or Kelly new contracts :o
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on September 30, 2013, 04:24:30 PM
Apparantly we might not offer Hallahan or Kelly new contracts :o
I saw/heard that too... :o
Mitch just won the Liston and should almost certainly get a game or two next season along with Woodward
Bullshower rumour hopefully.
What do you think you will over for Longer or do you envisage a three way deal involving Pies as well, Think this may be the way to go with you wanting Daisy and Karnezis wanting to make Pies club of preference. Assuming Longer still insists on going home,
Hawthorn has now ramped up its pursuit of homesick Brisbane Lions' young ruckman Billy Longer, after Mumford headed to GWS rather than the premiers.
Quote from: Ringo on October 03, 2013, 09:07:43 AM
What do you think you will over for Longer or do you envisage a three way deal involving Pies as well, Think this may be the way to go with you wanting Daisy and Karnezis wanting to make Pies club of preference. Assuming Longer still insists on going home,
Daisy is a free agent, we won't trade with collingwood.
Quote from: NigeyS on October 03, 2013, 10:42:14 AM
Hawthorn has now ramped up its pursuit of homesick Brisbane Lions' young ruckman Billy Longer, after Mumford headed to GWS rather than the premiers.
And Bailey maybe forced into early retirement due to his bad knees
I really hope our recruiters are going to be bold.
Andrew Boseley and Amos Frank delisted.
Osbourne and Bailey have retired today. Now you guys reeeeally need Longer, or some ruck.
I expect the Hawks to make a massive play for Billy Longer now.
That said, they do have Grimley who looks good.
But yeah, I think we'll see Longer in the gold and brown in 2014.
Will Longer and/or Grimley be enough? That's a very young ruck...
Quote from: stew42 on October 05, 2013, 10:45:20 PM
Will Longer and/or Grimley be enough? That's a very young ruck...
With Bailey gone, I expect Hale and Roughy to still ruck a bit from time to time.
I'm interested to hear how Hawks fans think their ruck scenario will play out in 2014.
Will just be Hale mixxing with a youngster Grimley/Longer/Ceglar/Lowden
Or I have heard a rumour of something like Savage for Hampson
Give Lowden a chance :)
From his 20 games he averaged 13.25 disposals, 4.15 marks, 22.95 hit outs and 0.85 goals a game in the VFL.
Grimley, who I assume played more forward than ruck in his 17 games averaged 11.29 disposals, 4.82 marks, just 4.59 hit outs and 1.65 goals a game.
See the Hawks are now also putting Brad Sewell on the table to free up space.
Imagine the irony of Chappie kicking a goal after the siren to beat Geelong.
He then runs over to Hawkins and stares him down.
Then high fives Bartel just for old times' sake!
That would be funny.
Quote from: Ringo on October 08, 2013, 09:24:54 AM
See the Hawks are now also putting Brad Sewell on the table to free up space.
Well, I guess we have a surplus of inside mids.
Oh wait...
If it is true that Sewell is on the table, it must be an indication that the club wants to get more games into Anderson, Langford and Hallahan. Which isn't a bad thing IMO especially if we can get something for Sewell.
If Sewell goes then maybe Savage will stay with another spot in the 22 opening up
Considering what Hampson, Betts and Crameri are going for, you could probably trade Sewell for pick 1 ::)
Or to Melbourne for pick 2 :P
They are after experienced midfielders after all
Quote from: Ricochet on October 08, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
Or to Melbourne for pick 2 :P
They are after experienced midfielders after all
I have been secretly hoping we'll make a play for that pick.
Quote from: Scrads on October 08, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
If it is true that Sewell is on the table, it must be an indication that the club wants to get more games into Anderson, Langford and Hallahan. Which isn't a bad thing IMO especially if we can get something for Sewell.
I feel this is exactly what may happen. Someone of Sewell's quality, even at his age, could be very worthwhile. Plus, these younger guys will have to be played, or they'll just end up doing what Savage probably will and leave for more opportunities. Hallahan's the one who is yet to make his debut, but has played plenty of VFL and won the Liston this year, if they don't get games into him especially this year, they may lose another good young gun.
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 08, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 08, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
Or to Melbourne for pick 2 :P
They are after experienced midfielders after all
I have been secretly hoping we'll make a play for that pick.
Even Sewell Plus Savage wouldnt get the deal done for #2
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane 40s
AFL has approved the lodgement of an offer for restricted free agent Lance Franklin. Hawthorn now has 3 days to match or decline that offer.
Note that Hawthorn can only ever receive one pick compensation for Franklin
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-08/buddy-becomes-a-swan
Big thanks to the Hawks, not being d*cks about it and dragging this out for the full 3days!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-has-let-lance-franklin-become-a-sydney-swan-with-the-afl-approving-the-mega-deal/story-fn69a32t-1226734330365
Gave Buddy a "clip" on the way out.
"Hawthorn chief executive Stuart Fox wrote to members confirming they would not match the deal, and stressing the club's success was built around selflessness.
"I would like to reiterate that our cub has been, and always will be, about the collective. It was what helped us achieve the 2013 premiership, and it will be what wins us our twelfth premiership when we are fortunate enough to salute again,'' he wrote.
"We have always been guided by an established list management strategy that puts the needs and interests of the cub first. Today we applied that approach."
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 08, 2013, 06:36:40 PM
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-08/buddy-becomes-a-swan
Big thanks to the Hawks, not being d*cks about it and dragging this out for the full 3days!
Buddy dragged it out enough to cover everyone.
The Hawks may trade Sewell, but are apparently somewhat interested in Chappy... ???
Also, Xavier Ellis will undergo a medical at Freo next week.
Shane Savage has apparently nominated Carlton as his club of choice and it is understood that pick 28 (the pick Carlton received from Richmond) should get the deal done.
Should not get the deal done :(
At this rate Carlton will have 50 players on their list next year.
Apart from chasing Longer and flogging off half our squad, what exactly are we doing? :-\
Brisbane want pick 18 for Longer? Turn it up.
Longer was pick 12 in the Draft of 2011 so surely it is reasonable to expect a first round pick for a player so recently drafted as a first round pick.
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 05:17:23 PM
Longer was pick 12 in the Draft of 2011 so surely it is reasonable to expect a first round pick for a player so recently drafted as a first round pick.
I think 18 is fair. But reports Brisbane want a player as well as 18 make it over the top
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 05:17:23 PM
Longer was pick 12 in the Draft of 2011 so surely it is reasonable to expect a first round pick for a player so recently drafted as a first round pick.
I think 18 is fair. But reports Brisbane want a player as well as 18 make it over the top
This. 18 would be fair, adding a player would be too much.
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
That's actually a surprisingly more fair system than I thought
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
Quote from: tor01doc on October 09, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
Here's an interesting question. Let's say hypothetically Paddy Dangerfield was a free agent this year and he decided to leave the Crows. Naturally you would say that the Crows would get a first round compo pick for him. But considering they don't have a first or second round pick would the Crows have received a third round pick? Imagine the uproar if that had occurred! :o
Quote from: tor01doc on October 09, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
And Tom Scully? ::)
Quote from: tor01doc on October 09, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
The idea is not that Hawthorn are given compensation equal to Franklin's worth, but compensation so that the general wave progression of team performance isn't disrupted
Quote from: CrowsFan on October 09, 2013, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: tor01doc on October 09, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
Here's an interesting question. Let's say hypothetically Paddy Dangerfield was a free agent this year and he decided to leave the Crows. Naturally you would say that the Crows would get a first round compo pick for him. But considering they don't have a first or second round pick would the Crows have received a third round pick? Imagine the uproar if that had occurred! :o
hahahaha.
oh well. Crows would deserve it :P
Quote from: Ziplock on October 09, 2013, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: CrowsFan on October 09, 2013, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: tor01doc on October 09, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 09, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 09, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Ringo on October 09, 2013, 06:18:46 PM
As A Brisbane supporter think 18 so long as it does not become 19 or 20 with compo picks is fair. I think the extra being asked is in case this pick becomes 20 or 21. Maybe a 3 way trade may be required to get Brisbane an earlier pick than 18.
18 is the Hawks first pick right? As far as I know, all the compensation for free agents come after the clubs pick (for non first round) or end of round?
So I dont think 18 can go any further can it?
Yep, which is why Collingwood get 11 for Daisy while the Hawks gets 19 for Buddy I'm pretty sure.
I am confused.
Buddy - pick 19
Thomas - pick 11! ::)
Here's an interesting question. Let's say hypothetically Paddy Dangerfield was a free agent this year and he decided to leave the Crows. Naturally you would say that the Crows would get a first round compo pick for him. But considering they don't have a first or second round pick would the Crows have received a third round pick? Imagine the uproar if that had occurred! :o
hahahaha.
oh well. Crows would deserve it :P
Definitely need a hidden camera to catch tbags reaction :P
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
What do you base that on?
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on October 09, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
And Tom Scully? ::)
Scully was different as he was part of GWS concessions coming into the league. Compensation was different than compensation for Free Agency.
Quote from: Rusty00 on October 10, 2013, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
What do you base that on?
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on October 09, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
And Tom Scully? ::)
Scully was different as he was part of GWS concessions coming into the league. Compensation was different than compensation for Free Agency.
Basically, if Hawthorn always gets compensation = Franklin then they'll never be a bad team.
If Melbourne gets compensation = Scully they'll never become a good team
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 10, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: Rusty00 on October 10, 2013, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
What do you base that on?
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on October 09, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
And Tom Scully? ::)
Scully was different as he was part of GWS concessions coming into the league. Compensation was different than compensation for Free Agency.
Basically, if Hawthorn always gets compensation = Franklin then they'll never be a bad team.
If Melbourne gets compensation = Scully they'll never become a good team
That has nothing to do with it.
The teams of all players who were selected by Gold Coast and GWS as part of their startup concessions (Ablett, Bock, Harbrow, Scully, Davis, Ward, etc.) were given compensation based on the AFL's perceived (current and future) worth of each player.
Compensation given for teams losing a player through Free Agency is different and is a maximum of one draft pick therefore the respective compensation given for Franklin and Scully can't be compared.
My question to you was what do you base this statement on?
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
Hawks getting Big Boy McEvoy from Saints...only just heard on SEN...Wowee..Savage to Saints with a pick
Yep here it is
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-swoops-on-star-saints-ruckman-ben-mcevoy-as-shane-savage-settles-at-st-kilda/story-fn69a32t-1226736583734
HAWTHORN has potentially pulled off another trade period coup by plucking St Kilda big man Ben McEvoy.
With the Hawks seemingly eyeing Brisbane's Billy Longer, the reigning premiers have nabbed McEvoy - the man considered a future leader at the Saints.
As part of the deal, St Kilda receives Hawk midfielder Shane Savage - who had seemed likely to head to Carlton - and the Hawks' first-round draft pick (selection 17 at this stage).
I can't believe the Saints went for that...
Longer will just becoming good when Hale opts out in a couple of years. Sounds likea good plan to me.. 8)
Well you fixed that up
Glenn Luff @LuffG0305 20m
Ben McEvoy good around the ground when playing a kick behind the play. In the ruck his numbers are below average. Not all bad for the Saints
Quote from: Toga on October 10, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
I can't believe the Saints went for that...
+1
Stoked with this :)
#back2back
Hawks List Manager Graham Wright on the deal:
It was only in the last couple of days it started. We were speaking to the Saints re Savage and Ben's name was brought up
It all went very quickly, he's overseas and that made it a little bit more difficult
(were you surprised?) A little bit. I know they had genuine interest in Shane, one from playing and NZ background (Saints links)
We were trying to get a pick that would satisfy Brisbane and then it comes up we need a ruckman. That's how it started
"how do you sell it to Longer when you have Hale and McEvoy?": A little bit difficult
We see Hale playing mainly forward and relieving in the ruck.
We're still hopeful we can work out something with Billy (Longer) in the next couple of weeks.
[on Sewell] He was never on the table. A couple of clubs brought his name up Monday and then he's in the paper which is disappointing
that trade looks like a joke, are stkilda tanking for tom boyd?
why would you give up one of the best rucks in the comp who is 24.
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
Quote from: Rusty00 on October 10, 2013, 09:49:31 AM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 10, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: Rusty00 on October 10, 2013, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
What do you base that on?
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on October 09, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
And Tom Scully? ::)
Scully was different as he was part of GWS concessions coming into the league. Compensation was different than compensation for Free Agency.
Basically, if Hawthorn always gets compensation = Franklin then they'll never be a bad team.
If Melbourne gets compensation = Scully they'll never become a good team
That has nothing to do with it.
The teams of all players who were selected by Gold Coast and GWS as part of their startup concessions (Ablett, Bock, Harbrow, Scully, Davis, Ward, etc.) were given compensation based on the AFL's perceived (current and future) worth of each player.
Compensation given for teams losing a player through Free Agency is different and is a maximum of one draft pick therefore the respective compensation given for Franklin and Scully can't be compared.
My question to you was what do you base this statement on?
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 09, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Collingwood lose more by losing Thomas than Hawthorn from Franklin.
No I wasn't comparing Free agency and GWS/GC uncontracted players at all, I was just making a comparison between players from teams at the top and bottom of the ladder.
If you keep giving the best teams compensation for having good players then those teams will never be beaten and the same goes for the lesser teams.
The best players at Hawthorn is obviously going to be better than the best players of the bottom 4 teams, so if they get better draft picks, then the whole process of those clubs becoming competitive is completely thrown
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 10, 2013, 10:47:34 AM
No I wasn't comparing Free agency and GWS/GC uncontracted players at all, I was just making a comparison between players from teams at the top and bottom of the ladder.
If you keep giving the best teams compensation for having good players then those teams will never be beaten and the same goes for the lesser teams.
The best players at Hawthorn is obviously going to be better than the best players of the bottom 4 teams, so if they get better draft picks, then the whole process of those clubs becoming competitive is completely thrown
I agree. They should (and probably will) scrap the Free Agency compo picks anyway.
Quote from: Ricochet on October 10, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
He is better than Bailey.
That screeching sound is the sound of back to back odds shortening. ;)
Quote from: Rusty00 on October 10, 2013, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 10, 2013, 10:47:34 AM
No I wasn't comparing Free agency and GWS/GC uncontracted players at all, I was just making a comparison between players from teams at the top and bottom of the ladder.
If you keep giving the best teams compensation for having good players then those teams will never be beaten and the same goes for the lesser teams.
The best players at Hawthorn is obviously going to be better than the best players of the bottom 4 teams, so if they get better draft picks, then the whole process of those clubs becoming competitive is completely thrown
I agree. They should (and probably will) scrap the Free Agency compo picks anyway.
Yeah I think this'll be the last year they're in place
Unless the Saints get Billy Longer from that no. 17 pick then that's a pretty poor trade on their behalf.
Hawks have done very well out of it IMO.
Brisbane may be the big losers for pushing too hard, should have taken 17 for Longer, dont reckon they will get a deal done now.
I'm beginning to wonder whether Longer will want to go to the Hawks now...
He could go to St Kilda... Him and Hickey could work very nicely.
Nice work Hawks. Back in the game.
Now, if we can just nab ourselves another mid I'll be wrapped.
Yeah very happy with that. Brisbane wanted that pick and a player as well, and this way we get a more developed big man who is at a prime age and can have an impact from round 1. We don't have much to offer brisbans for longer now, I hope sewell doesn't get traded and it isn't looking like he will be.
Very surprised the saints gave him up given they rate him so highly. Hopefully savage does well with more opportunities at the saints.
Paul Salmon
Shaun Rehn
Peter Everitt
We had form...
Quote from: Ricochet on October 10, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
This. Most Saints fans are happy with the trade.
http://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83400
Not in our top 10 in B&F either and played all 22 games.
Quote from: Ricochet on October 10, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
And what did the 10 guys above him have in common? Every single one is older. ;)
I have no doubt he will develop into a very good player indeed.
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 10, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 10, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
And what did the 10 guys above him have in common? Every single one is older. ;)
I have no doubt he will develop into a very good player indeed.
I see it as a good trade for both clubs. McEvoy is at a great age and has plenty to offer the Hawks with Bailey and Buddy moving on. Savage will offer plenty at the Saints too...both could be 100+ game players at their new clubs.
enzedder - showing great insight for a Kiwi?
Good trade that will benefit both clubs.
To suggest it is one sided reveals a touch of fanaticism me thinks.
Would love to have kept Savage, but need a ruckman.
Quote from: tor01doc on October 10, 2013, 07:49:57 PM
enzedder - showing great insight for a Kiwi?
Good trade that will benefit both clubs.
To suggest it is one sided reveals a touch of fanaticism me thinks.
Would love to have kept Savage, but need a ruckman.
Helps that I'm an Aussie...speaking of Kiwis...Savage was born in Auckland...belongs with the Wellington Saints! ;)
Apparently reported on Channel 7 news the Hawks gave the Saints a sweetener pick 18(buddy's compo) for 21(saints second rounder). Sweet! ;D
Edit- Maybe picks 20 for 23 now that Buddy and Daisy's compensation picks have been slotted in...not sure if this has been confirmed yet.
Yeah I agree that this is a solid trade for both teams - don't see the fuss the media is making
It is the only decent 'unexpected' trade thus far.
Hopefully a win - win.
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 10, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 10, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Is he actually that good though?
Ranked 11th for Hitouts for this year. Even last year he wasn't inside the top 10
And what did the 10 guys above him have in common? Every single one is older. ;)
I have no doubt he will develop into a very good player indeed.
Lobbe is the same age and most of the rest of the top 10 are only a year older.
Quote from: Ziplock on October 11, 2013, 12:05:07 AM
I know people have been hacking on mcevoy for his hitouts etc. but you really have to take into account that st kilda averages the second least amount of stoppages in the comp, to put it into perspective, the bottom 4 in stoppages are
18th geelong
17th stk
16th melbourne
15h gws
so yeah, mcevoy only averages 20.4 hit outs (keeping in mind there were a fair few games where he shared the ruck 50/50 with hickey), but he didn't exactly get the most amount of hit out options.
although, if anyone can pull up stats comparing ruckmen on like % hitouts to advantage that proves me wrong (because I dont know where to look), I'd be happy to say I'm wrong.
Tbh I'm just happy we have a ruckman capable of playing an entire game. :P
Sidenote - Good to see Maxy got a gig Richmond.
I think the trade fits in well with what both clubs are trying to achieve.
Mcevoy is certainly not a bad ruckman and I'm sure he'll serve the Hawks well but at the same time i think St.Kilda got a worthy deal out of him
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/hawthorn/news/2013-10-16/ellis-signs-with-eagles.workstation
Hawthorn Football Club can confirm unrestricted free agent Xavier Ellis has agreed to terms with West Coast Eagles and will leave the Hawks under free agency rules.
Do we get compo?
I think you do, but it won't be much. 2nd or 3rd round pick probably.
Wish him well.
Hope his body holds out a bit better in the wild West.
Did his job - sort of.
PS Is the sign of success being booed when you play your old team?
If so, he hasn't really succeeded because I can't see too many boos coming his way.
Quote from: NigeyS on October 16, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
I think you do, but it won't be much. 2nd or 3rd round pick probably.
There is no chance in the world we will get a second round pick if they are using last years formula lol. They base it on how much the player is being paid at the new club (I'm pretty sure) and Ellis is only on a one year deal that would have to be worth not much given his injury history. Therefore don't reckon we'll get anything for him unfortunately. Can't really complain though as he was probably going to be delisted anyway if he wasn't picked up.
Good luck to him, I have stated this before that I like him, hopefully a fresh start was what he needed to get over his injuries. His 2008 grand final performance will be remembered :)
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
They did take Big Boy from them.
Quote from: NigeyS on October 22, 2013, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
They did take Big Boy from them.
So if this is a back end of the McEvoy deal, that is draft tampering?? :o
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
It's part of the McEvoy trade. They needed to wait until compensation picks were handed out before they completed this part of it.
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 22, 2013, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
They did take Big Boy from them.
So if this is a back end of the McEvoy deal, that is draft tampering?? :o
Apparently it's a sweetener. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-22/hawks-send-buddy-pick-to-saints)
Quote from: NigeyS on October 22, 2013, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: NigeyS on October 22, 2013, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 22, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Hawks send Buddy compo pick (19) to St Kilda for Picks 24 and 59.
If I didnt understand the Eagles giving up pick 6 for 11 I really dont get WTF Hawks are doing???
They did take Big Boy from them.
So if this is a back end of the McEvoy deal, that is draft tampering?? :o
Apparently it's a sweetener. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-22/hawks-send-buddy-pick-to-saints)
All part of the deal..
Wow... Saints have done well!!
They wanted 3 first round draft picks... and got them!
Apparently they're refusing to trade any of them to the Lions for Longer.
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
There are some decent ones coming off contract soon too, Ryan Griffen and Scooter Selwood to name a couple.
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 24, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Yeah, good call.
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 24, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 24, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Yeah, good call.
In 2012 a lot wouldn't have seen Buddy leaving either :p
Hawthorn have upgraded Will Langford and Jonathon Ceglar to the senior while Derick Wanganeen has been delisted.
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 24, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 24, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Yeah, good call.
In 2012 a lot wouldn't have seen Buddy leaving either :p
Of course, but Hawthorn didn't lose a whole lot of high quality players beforehand
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 30, 2013, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 24, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 24, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Yeah, good call.
In 2012 a lot wouldn't have seen Buddy leaving either :p
Of course, but Hawthorn didn't lose a whole lot of high quality players beforehand
Did so, we lost Murphy and Gilham :P
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on October 30, 2013, 07:46:05 PM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 30, 2013, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: SydneyRox on October 24, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: Mailman the 2nd on October 24, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ricochet on October 24, 2013, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Craig on October 22, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
If any marquee midfielder holds off contract talks next year odds on they will be going to the Hawks.
Swan's contract ends at the end of next year i think. And Buck's is slowly destroying his rat pack
Buckley got rid of Shaw and Thomas to be able to keep Swan and Pendles, I can't see them going
Yeah, good call.
In 2012 a lot wouldn't have seen Buddy leaving either :p
Of course, but Hawthorn didn't lose a whole lot of high quality players beforehand
Did so, we lost Murphy and Gilham :P
I'm sure it hurts more every day :P