Basically, as some of you may or may not know, I do gender studies as my elective at university, and I'm planning on writing my major essay this semester on women in Australian Rules Football.
So basically, I have a few quick questions to as you all, and I would really appreciate it if you could all give answers, especially if you feel strongly about the topic in eitherway. I have to do this on a publicly accessible domain, since I haven't gotten ethical clearance for this (purely bureaucratic), which means I need any responses to it on the forum, and not in PM's.
Please don't attack people for their views on these topics, whatever they are, friendly debate/ discussion is fine though. I personally won't be participating in any further discussion, except to thank people for their views, as well as asking people to clarify or expand on opinions(if necessary). If I need to use a specific quote from here, I'll PM anyone involved.
Thanks anyone who responds, answers to any of the questions is appreciated if you don't feel like answering them all :)
Remember, safe environment people, don't attack anyone. The most important part of this process is in people saying what they believe in.
The Questions:
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
I understand that's a reasonable amount of questions, and I would be really grateful to any answers to them at all. Explanations for your answers would be great as well if you're willing to offer them. This is a pretty informal process, so I might put up new questions occasionally is they come to mind.
I understand that this is a mainly male community, but I'm also pretty interested in the responses of women. If you happen to be responding to this and are a woman, can you please say so (but if you don't necessarily want people to know that you are female for what ever reason, feel free to send me a PM).
If anyone has any wives, girlfriends, sister etc. who'd be willing to answer these questions as well, that would be really appreciate too. I'd be really interested to hear answers to questions 1, 5, 6 from women (although, with 6 I'd like to hear if they'd participated in the competition ever).
Once again, thanks everyone who participates :)
1. I love how women are involved in my community, The thing that impresses me is the amount of opportunities out there, even in my town which isn't that big we have a team. Also what I found interesting in year 8, my school had more girls try out for football than guys, which was awesome.
2. I also am a big fan of this, I'm no umpire expert but I imagine there are certain tests and standards that have to be passed and if someone can pass them, man or women, then they should have the right to umpire AFL.
3. If Essendon were to hire a female coach I would give her a shot just like any other coach, she obviously knows her footy if she gets a job at AFL level.
4. Same opinion applies ^^
5. I don't like this scenario at all, I just feel as if I wouldn't work at all or the rules would be changed such as tackling and bumping and I think the males would feel extremely intimidated. Also if a male player got reported for hitting a female player then I think he would be under a hell of a lot more scrutiny than if he hit a male player.
6. Unfortunately I can't say that I have ever seen a game of Women's Australian Football but not due to lack of interest but lack of exposure, as I believe it does not get televised on FTA. Also I regularly watch women's soccer and cricket when it's on FTA.
7. If it was on TV, yes, however I would not go to the ground to watch it as it is 2 hours away
BTW, this sounds like an awesome elective at university.
Thanks heaps!
yeah, it's a pretty interesting subject... I do advanced science, so it's a bit left field to choose as my elective, but I've found it really interesting. It's not just one subject either, like the one I do is Men, Masculinity and Mateship, but from memory there's like another half dozen gender studies units that USYD offers, from 'Bodies and Identifies' to 'Love and Friendship'.
As I said, interesting :P
I've added on an extra 2 questions that I thought probably needed addressing. If you're happy to answer them as well, that'd be awesome :)
Awesome stuff Zippy, interesting topic as well! I was thinking of doing some Gender studies as an elective as well but there are so much stuff to choose from, it's hard to.
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
Not a huge role, don't really notice many besides a few you see on the news/footy shows (e.g. Chelsea Roffey, Caroline Wilson, Sam Lane, Christie Malthouse when she use to be on air). They don't have a big role, but slowly getting a bigger role as time has moved on. Usually quite alot are involved in Junior footy which is great, alot have a passion for the football, but just don't hear about them enough as it is a predominantly seen as a male sport.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Pretty much what Specky said. I am not against it if they are fit enough to be an umpire. They have to be able to run quite a bit, so if they can handle it, can't see why more of them can't get a role in football leagues. Small step with female goal umpires past few years, certainly can see more female on-field/boundary umpires in the near future.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
Doesn't really bother me about gender here. If they have football knowledge and can coach, why not? Gender shouldn't really play a role here as it doesn't define how good somebody can motivate and coach their players. That would be my reaction, can certainly see some more "masculine" players who wouldn't want to be led by a female, but for me I wouldn't be fussed.
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Same as above, pretty much what Specky has said as well :P.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
Although they may be able to compete at the same level, I wouldn't allow for a mixed league for what Specky said, rules will be changed to suit (e.g. bumping/tackling). I for one don't tackle girls and I know others who wouldn't either. Can see Junior footy where kids are tackling anybody regardless of gender, but as fully grown adults, don't think they should be mixed. As Specky also said, if a male player did something to a female player, it would be more heavily scrutinised than if it was a male on male. That is more of a society thing though as people would want to protect the minority in the females, which would be an unfair sort of thing introduced with the introduction of women playing AFL.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Never watched a full game, although seen bits of some games on ABC a few years ago. Haven't watched it for like 1-2 years though.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
I don't watch as many AFL games as I use to, but wouldn't be against watching women play professionally. Should be encouraging participation of females in the sport, and although may not be at the same standard as the men, who says it can't be just as entertaining. I'm open to this as a similar thing is happening in another sport I watch (MMA), where females are able to compete at the highest level as well. Just as entertaining as some of the male fights, some even moreso, so just got to be open to the idea!
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
Pretty much is gendered attitudes. For a long time, it was a male dominated organisation, still is really. AFL comes off as a "manly" sport, with limited involvement by females due to this. Barriers of entry also occur for females, as some females are limited to certain jobs available to them (interviewers, media personalities, etc). It has come further recent years than in the past, so there is some movement towards a bit more females involved, but still predominantly a male organisation.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
You would like to think not, but sexism will be around regardless of what people say. There will always some people against the involvement of women, but as society has changed, more have become accepting of the increasing female role in it.
Thanks HP :) If you get an opportunity, I'd say seriously consider it... it can be surprisingly enlightening :P
Quote from: Ziplock on June 05, 2013, 07:19:42 PM
Thanks HP :) If you get an opportunity, I'd say seriously consider it... it can be surprisingly enlightening :P
Had like 2 weeks of Gender and Crime in my first year Criminilogy subject, was quite interesting to learn about the differences in how they are treated in the criminal system and also potrayed in the media. Seeing as I'm doing Arts, may do a subject or two in it if I can fit in it somehow.
haha, yeah. I'm probably going to do another gender studies subject next semester as well :P
Eh why not. I'll try and answer the questions to the best of my ability.
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
I've got no issue with it, as long as they are worthy for the job. If they know their footy, they have every right to be part of the media. What I do have an issue with it certain networks hiring women for the sake of having one on the team. While I never agree with Caro, it seems like she has a proper opinion at times and knows a thing or too about the game. On the other side of the spectrum is someone like Sam Lane, who I have no issue with as a person, I just feel like she was on Before The Game (And now Channel 7), to appeal to the middle aged woman. She never has anything interesting to say, and she just seems to be out of place and awkward on TV.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
If they have what it takes, then yes they should have an equal opportunity to become an umpire.
3. I'd be surprised purely because I've never had a female coach handle my footy team and club. But the same thing applies as above, if they meet the requirements of a coach then I'd be absolutely fine with it.
4. Same as coach and umpire.
5. I'm not too sure, I'd think it would be better to keep it separate. We also are just assuming that females are worse than men at footy. Men don't get the chance to play in women leagues, and to be honest unless a league isn't available or has a high standard league available to players then I don't think women should play in men's leagues and vice versa. Same things what Specky said as well.
6. I may have seen a women footy match before but I can't remember any part of it :P
7. I can't say how often I'd watch it because I'd have to be involved with a club or it would have to matter to me in someway I guess. I don't watch NBL because I like Basketball. I don't watch the English 3rd division if no interesting teams are playing. I don't watch County Cricket just because I like Cricket. To be honest I hardly ever watch the VFL, so I doubt I'd watch a Women's Aussie Rules league often.
To clarify Q5 Q, I think it's assuming that men are better than women by not allowing men to play in a womans league :P
If you have time, I'd appreciate answers to the more general questions of 8 and 9 as well :)
thanks though :)
Quote from: Ziplock on June 05, 2013, 07:47:13 PM
To clarify Q5 Q, I think it's assuming that men are better than women by not allowing men to play in a womans league :P
If you have time, I'd appreciate answers to the more general questions of 8 and 9 as well :)
thanks though :)
Whops. I meant to write "we". I'll fix it.
So this answer was sent to me in PM, from a source that doesn't want to be disclosed.
The Questions:
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
I get the impression trained eg Physio, masseurs, psychologists, etc are accepted for their skills on offer. Media females seem to be tryhards (imo) generally speaking. As in any area of work some people are better than others in anyones personal view. I am trying to say ..perhaps I dont like the approach of Caroline Wilson but like the approach of Kelly Underwood or Chloe Saltau but the next bloke / person likes the reverse. Wheras commenting on male media commentators is more bland and even handed.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
An umpire selected on ability is just that. Training streams need work on giving / promoting the jobs to women but umpiring is simply umpiring.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
Whoever gets through a selection process based on a fair criteria works for me. Of course the spin doctoring of the decision would be sensational and marketing the decision to sponsors, fans etc would be a massive challenge.
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Same as Q3. Best person for the job is the best person.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
I just cant see it happening Zip. I am probably a bit neanderthal in my view that simply physical differences (from late teenage onwards) will prevent any meaningful integration. Health and safety / insurance concerns by local clubs will block potential integration imo....misguided or not.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Have watched a couple of games. If any choice required AFL would get the view.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
Yep. I watch a lot of sport.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
Absolutely. The boys club mentality and arrogance of the opinion that " you need to have played elite football" to know anything is seriously an outdated and a serious blocker to establishing a culture of best people and practice. Changes in all levels of senior AFL should enable a massive widening of the applicant search base.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
Actually I see it everywhere..and sadly I see it being promoted and therefore no sign of ending. :-\
If anyone else has the time to do this, that'd be sweet :)
Quote from: Ziplock on June 05, 2013, 05:36:36 PM
Basically, as some of you may or may not know, I do gender studies as my elective at university, and I'm planning on writing my major essay this semester on women in Australian Rules Football.
So basically, I have a few quick questions to as you all, and I would really appreciate it if you could all give answers, especially if you feel strongly about the topic in eitherway. I have to do this on a publicly accessible domain, since I haven't gotten ethical clearance for this (purely bureaucratic), which means I need any responses to it on the forum, and not in PM's.
Please don't attack people for their views on these topics, whatever they are, friendly debate/ discussion is fine though. I personally won't be participating in any further discussion, except to thank people for their views, as well as asking people to clarify or expand on opinions(if necessary). If I need to use a specific quote from here, I'll PM anyone involved.
Thanks anyone who responds, answers to any of the questions is appreciated if you don't feel like answering them all :)
Remember, safe environment people, don't attack anyone. The most important part of this process is in people saying what they believe in.
The Questions:
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
I have no problems with it at all so long as they are chosen for their knowledge of the game and not a token gender appointment. We have had and have some knowledgeable female commentators at the moment as has been mentioned previously.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Again no complaint here. I have been following Chelsea Roffey for a while, started in Queensland and moved to Melbourne to improve her game which I admire. If the ladies have the dedication and drive no reason why they can not achieve their goals. Would expect them to be scrutinised the same as male counterparts with no allowances made when they make it.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
This would be an interesting hypothetical at it would possibly be the first case of a coach that has not played the game . However if she had been selected as the best person for the coaches job she would have my support,
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Would have no problem here as some females are showing they have what it takes to run companies and this can be transferred to AFL clubs.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
This is probably the only area where I disagree with integration. Whilst it is OK at Junior Levels with the developing bodies and physiological issues there would be differences. Rules may have to be changed to allow. Do not mean to sound Neanderthal here but what would happen if you tackled an opposing female player hard subsequently to find she did not know she was pregnant and had a miscarriage. (Would devastate you as well) What a minefield insurance wise for clubs as well if these issues are not addressed up front by rule relaxation causing a further diminishing of the game. From experience used to play mixed Touch football but treaded wearily when approaching females and suspect this may be the case if women allowed to play in elite sport.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
There was a game of womens AFL as a pre lim game to a reserves game I watched and I enjoyed it.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
Would watch on TV and if it was the prelimto main game athen yes.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
It is getting better but has taken a lot of effort. Boys club mentality still exists and until such time this is totally removed from society will be there as obstacles for females to overcome. Once the trialblazers breakthrough the barrier I can see more and more women becoming involved.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
As above there is a some sexism in society and this reaches across to the AFL in some areas. Personally I think until this attitude is overcome Women will be scrutinised a lot more harshly then men for the same roles.
I understand that's a reasonable amount of questions, and I would be really grateful to any answers to them at all. Explanations for your answers would be great as well if you're willing to offer them. This is a pretty informal process, so I might put up new questions occasionally is they come to mind.
I understand that this is a mainly male community, but I'm also pretty interested in the responses of women. If you happen to be responding to this and are a woman, can you please say so (but if you don't necessarily want people to know that you are female for what ever reason, feel free to send me a PM).
If anyone has any wives, girlfriends, sister etc. who'd be willing to answer these questions as well, that would be really appreciate too. I'd be really interested to hear answers to questions 1, 5, 6 from women (although, with 6 I'd like to hear if they'd participated in the competition ever).
Once again, thanks everyone who participates :)
I'll be super quick because I'm studying for an exam on Monday
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
It varies by person (which leads me to think the best response would be that I have no problem with it if they're good at what they do). Basically, those trained to do a medical job and do it well, I'm 100% fine with. Anyone that promotes our game to juniors is good with me. I often dislike those in the media that speak about the game as if they've played it at the level of the players. Obviously, women don't play in the AFL so media personalities that speak as if they know the game inside and out get on my nerves. I'd much rather hear Tom Harley talk strategy than Caroline Wilson.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Not a fan of field umpires being female because AFL footy is a game designed for big, imposing, and intimidating men. I just don't see a female being able to control players. I do, however, think a female boundary or goal umpire is as worthy as a man IF they can do the job just as well. No special treatment just because it might make the league look good.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
In all honesty, I'd be against it because I think the best coaches are almost always ex-players and a female can't have played at that level.
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Wouldn't be phased in the slightest. I don't even know what the president does most of the time.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
Can't even comprehend that question. Women and men are very physically different. I just don't see how it could possibly happen. On the off chance that a freak woman appears, I say "sure, why not!"
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Never watched it but highlights on the news bored me, tbh. It was a slower game and less athletic.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
I'd likely give it a chance but probably not if it were slower and less athletic like a lot of other female sports tend to be.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
Some roles are likely due to the whole "women don't know about football" stereotype. There are roles that, as I've said before, I believe are best suited for ex-players so I don't think a woman would suit.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
From some, yes. But it varies from person to person and case to case.
thanks guys!
Good stuff Zip, hope this helps!
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
No problems at all, but I don't like tokenism in official roles like the media, administration and umpiring. If a woman is in a role because of her knowledge, skills and experience then I'm all for it.
In regards to community footy I spend my Saturdays at Auskick and Junior footy with my kids, and quite frankly they would struggle to operate without mums pitching in to help out.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
As above, no issues provided they are able to competitively perform at the same level as a male. I think this oesnt happen as much due to the high physical demand, but more so the emotional pressure and scrutiny given to the umps.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
I would only have a problem in that she won't have played the game. I do think it would draw extra scrutiny though - bit like how J Gillard draws scrutiny about certain things that male contemporaries don't.
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Absolutely no issue, provided she has he skills to do the job.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
I'm ok with this provided the women in question would be prepared to accept completely equal physical expectations, including the 'biff'. I'd be against it if blokes started tackling, or pressuring differently because it was a woman involved.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Nope. Obviously doesn't get much coverage.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
Probably occasionally. Would possibly see it a bit like the VFL. Something to watch when there isn't an AFL game on...
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
To an extent. I think that there is some stereotyping that prevents women from getting to that level, but I'd suggest a lot of that is based on physical limitations.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
Um... I think there is probably a degree of this, but I think most people just love footy for what it is, rather that who plays or administrated it. I think history is probably what causes the sexism, rather that bad will.
cheers spink :)
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
I don't mind it at all, I mean for over 150 years the sport has been dominated by males and over the past 5-10 years the females have been given such big roles as commentators and umpires and voicing their opinion either through a television screen or on paper, Many wouldn't like it because its something different. "What would a women know about a sport thats only played by men" I have seen some of the women play and they are a lot tougher than some AFL players
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
No opinion at all women have a right to make umpiring their profession and deserve to be treated like any other umpire. Good to see some variety in the umpiring roles
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
Certinalty something different but if she brings fresh ideas to the club and has an idea on what she is doing i don't see anything wrong with it, We have a female prime minster why not a coach
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
No problem at all would be very interesting to see the ideas she would bring to the club
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
Sure it would be good to see and will bring more people to the ground to see how good these women are after a certain point surely their bodies will struggle to pull up week after week against the bigger bodies. I however don't see a problem with having a more public womens league similar to the AFL.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football))
I have and cannot wait for the Melbourne Vs Bulldogs womens match in a couple of weeks really looking forward to seeing the skills these women have. Some women can really play
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
I would probably watch a game or two every week but wouldn't pay much notice to it as much as the real AFL.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
Wind the clock back 10 years and women in football was as uncommon as eating a banana in a mens locker room at a gym now a days we have female sports reporters, commentators, runners, female football staff it is certainly on the rise and i feel in the next 5 years we will continue to see the development of females in the AFL world.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
Not at all like i previously stated 10 years ago you would say no as the AFL would deny letting women play a vital role in the week to week matches but i have seen that develop over the years and the now these quite a number of females in the football world such as Christie Malthouse, Caroline Wilson and Sam Lane they have lead the way for women in the AFL for years to come.
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
I have no issue with women playing certain roles in the AFL community.
I think at juniour and non professional level where people are not paid for their time and effort, anyone that puts their hand up to help out deserves a pat on the back. Local football leagues are only possible due to volunteers and plenty of them are women so good on them.
At professional level I must admit I tend to get irritated by the female commentators however that could be more due to the ones that are around being very opinionated and controversial. There are plenty of male commentators I dont like as well.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Thinking back to when I played football I never had an issue with it. The regular female umpires I had were both very good umpires.
In the AFL there is obviously only one female umpire and as she was selected to goal umpire the grand final last season she must be doing a good job. I wouldnt have an issue with more female umpires being introduced.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
Hard to imagine but if they had done the time as an assistant coach under a successful AFL head coach and club through a successful era as well as coming across as a highly motivated and focused person with a clear plan then it really wouldnt bother me. I guess I would want to know that they had been picked because they were the best person for the job and not just because of the novelty of it being the first female coach of an AFL side
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Similar to the response I gave above.
If they were the right person for the job then so be it. Presidency isnt given to anyone. You generally have to be a successful and highly motivated individual with an impressive resume. It is also a non paying job so if the person was that dedicated and was the best fit for the job then it wouldnt matter to me if they were male or female
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
This I just dont agree with. Off the top of my head there are no professional sports where men and women share the same playing field (Mixed doubles tennis I know, but come on, who takes that seriously?)
AFL is a very physical high intensity game. There may be a one in a million woman than has the skill, endurance, and determination of an elite AFL player but the physical side of the game cannot be ignored. It would put everyone in an awkward position. Is Jonothan Brown expected to go a little easier when he has the chance to clean her up with a hip and shoulder? I remember the odd girl in some teams in junior footy and I hated it. Everyone would sort of half tackle her or deliberately let her run past. It was just awkward. Big NO on that one
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Maybe once and I have seen highlights of a few games before. I dont have much of an interest to be honest
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
I really doubt it. I find it hard to watch even the VFL as it just doesnt build any emotion in me. When watching AFL, it doesnt matter who is playing I will always find myself barracking for a team for whatever reason like they are my own. I dont get this from any other leagues so i think I would watch bits and pieces but thats about all
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
No, not necesarilly. I think you would just find that there are a lot more men interested in taking these positions.
The AFL have shown that they are willing to take on board a female umpire if they are the right person for the job. When 99% of the people wanting a job as an AFL umpire are men though then the chances are the best person for the job is going to be a man. In fact I would go as far as to say the AFL would probably love to have more female umpires if they could find them.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
If by this you are talking about in the hiring of people for jobs within AFL clubs then no I dont. I think the jobs are there for the best people to fill weather that be a male or female. A vast majority of men want the jobs so a vast majority of men get the jobs.
Amongst the general football public I think sexism is probably prevalent. We just dont hear of it as there arent any women out their to be criticised in that way. I can only imagine some of the comments that would fly around workplaces, pubs and stadiums if a woman was to run onto the field.
We havent even moved passed racist comments being hurled over the fence despite aboriginal people having been a major part of the game for decades. The fat cats of the AFL watch the games from behind glass on the second level while fine dining. They dont hear the comments made from the bottom level in the cheersquad and on the factory floor at a workplace. Unfortunately as a society there is still a lot of racism, homophobia and indeed sexism.
thanks noz, teejay :)
ftr teejag, there aren't a lot of mixed sports, but they include
tennis, badmition, gloorball, curling, underwater hockey, ultimate frisbee and korfball (which is actually the only 100% mixed sport).
there's also occasionally mixed boxing exhibition matches (although they're mostly staged)
and also, one in a million women who were able to compete at the afl level would be around 30 women drafted in the competition (or about 5% of players), just saying :P
if anyone else is willing to chuck in their 2c, that'd be sweet :)
As an aside Zip Australian Womens AFL Championship coming up in Cairns. may add a little bit to your research.
thanks ringo :)
I'd be interested to see the stats for that...
#checkoutthedtpoints
http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=440
For your info Zip a fair bit about womens afl mainly in Qld though. Will see what i can find regarding stats for the championships which start next Monday.
my responses:
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
- generally I think this is positive that you need strong female participation in AFL at as many levels as possible - anytime a cross-section of society excludes a minority group you're goin to get some issues so there is strength in tolerance and acceptance.
eg Australian Defence Force is having some issues right at the moment but they have to address them and open up their male-dominated domain or the organisation will be that much the poorer in the long-term.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
- Chelsea Roffey is the aspirational ideal - you don't even notice her really as she is that good at her job and her gender is not generally raised as an issue apart from AFL promotion of women in the sport - ie on gameday you don't mark her out against the men in my opinion and that's where women in AFL i think should strive to get to, a point where their gender isn't even an issue
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
- see comments above - if they can do the job, gender should not be an issue
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
- again, see above
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
- women and men will not play together at the elite level purely on physiological difference - hasn't happened in elite sport anywhere where physical attributes mean a significant difference in performance.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
- no as it's not generally televised at the moment
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
- for sure. I already watch women's A-League, WNBL, WNBA and netball - if you're a sports lover you just watch sport imo
i would certainly do women's based SC/DT that's for sure! ;)
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
- not so much, i would say it is a reflection of question 5 above where women are not able to play at the elite level so they are going to be at a competitive disadvantage when going for higher level AFL jobs such as coaching.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
- yes, but sometimes it is difficult to separate individual issues from those of gender
eg Caroline Wilson - sometimes I respect her views but at other times she's just being 'sensationalist' for sake of selling a 'story'
eg Kelli Underwood - she just couldn't commentate, nothing to do with her gender in my opinion - she was not engaging and just didn't add anything in commentary unfortunately
eg Chelsea Roffey - see comments above, ie you don't generally notice her and her gender is not an issue cos she just gets the job done
eg Sam Lane - as a commentator she knows her stuff so her peers and people generally respect her views
Other useful stuff Zippy ...
check out this link to this Victorian Women's Trust initiative ... http://www.vwt.org.au/initiatives-26-128.html
in particular I would recommend Dr Jackson Katz's articles "Why Gender Violence is not a women's issue" and "Men's Invisibility in the Violence Discourse" as good starting points (only 3-4 pages each and very succinct and to the point imo) for your gender studies generally though i acknowledge that they are predominantly based on men's violence against women and family and domestic violence but still a good start point for further research if you're interested for your topic.
Good luck with your paper,
jas
thanks jas :)
these responses have been really helpful, as I said, there's minimal research on women in specific relation to AFL, so it's really appreciated to hear everyone's views :)
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
- I think that what women are involved in, they do well. I think that female journalists do the job just as well as males (If not better)
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
- As long as they do the umpiring well, I don't care what gender they are.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
- I wouldn't really care, as long as they did the job better than Voss :P
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
- Again, I wouldn't really care, as long as she keeps the club in a good financial position.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
- I don't really like it. I don't think it will work. The only sport I've ever seen this done in is tennis, with the mixed doubles. I do not think it will work.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
- I haven't, mainly cause it isn't on TV. However with the National Championships coming up here to Cairns, I think I will find myself going to some games.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
- Yes. The more footy the better.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
- Yes, however sometimes just saying something say Caroline Wilson said was junk, may get called sexism by some one else.
thanks heaps :)
anyone else up for it?
remember, you can pm me your responses if you want to remain anonymous (I'll have to post them here though, just won't use your name) :P
From another anon
1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)
Same as the male role, playing, officiating, participating in any way they would like to and feel comfortable.
2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Having worked with them, if they are able to do their job to the required standard I have no issues.
3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
If her credentials matched the role it would be fine. If she can do the job and command respect then it is okay, I would struggle to see a time in the next decade where a women with the same level of exerpaince is able to step up. In the long term there is any number of possibilities.
4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Fine, women are capable, it comes down to performance not initial reactions.
5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
Fine again, in the situation they are at the same level.
6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
No, never.
7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
No.
8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
No, I think it represents the passion shown by men, and also the common societal expectations of roles.
9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
Nope, because there is never really talk about female issues, so maybe hidden but not a massively prevalent issue.
Thanks to everyone who's responded so far :) I'll be starting my essay soon, so anyone who still wants to get in on it, if you could do so quickly-ish that'd be great :P
(If it comes down to it, I can add stuff in afterwards, but it's due on thursday, so that's really the cut off :P )
thanks again people :)
it was a 2500 word essay, max limit of 2750...
I stopped writing at 4400.
:'(
Quote from: Ziplock on June 23, 2013, 11:38:10 PM
it was a 2500 word essay, max limit of 2750...
I stopped writing at 4400.
:'(
Wow, so were expecting a quality 2500 then, ;)
:'(
well, I got a HD for the essay, so ended up with a mark of 81 :)
thanks people :)
Quote from: Ziplock on July 23, 2013, 10:07:00 PM
well, I got a HD for the essay, so ended up with a mark of 81 :)
thanks people :)
well done? I'm not very familiar with uni gradings but it sounds good, :)
I'm really happy with it :)
Quote from: specky92 on July 23, 2013, 11:32:20 PM
Quote from: Ziplock on July 23, 2013, 10:07:00 PM
well, I got a HD for the essay, so ended up with a mark of 81 :)
thanks people :)
well done? I'm not very familiar with uni gradings but it sounds good, :)
Yeah, HDs are the highest you can get which are basically As in High School. Awesome stuff Zippy :D.