well today has been an annihilation....... :'(
we have some real issues going forward in particular what our best midfield combination is and our forward line structure which without Pavlich seems to be non existent
okay so im going to try and be constructive in criticism whilst still trying to work out why things aren't working........
first i will start with the backline.......
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the best backline i reckon we have is........
Van Berlo Silvagni Johnson
Duffield McPharlin Broughton
the 3 talls in Silvagni Mcpharlin and Johnson with the good kicking skills of broughton and Van Berlo
seems to be an okay balance IMO
depth = Mcphee Suban Grover Roberton Ibbotson Dawson Faulks
Defence = C good enough to beat most teams but tends to wilt under relentless pressure and depth in this area is okay
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Midfield
this is where we struggle the most......
Barlow, Mundy,(inside)
Fyfe, Morabito, Hill(outside)
Barlow Mundy and Fyfe seem to do enough to be automatically included most weeks but after these 3
the quality of the midfielders declines a great deal with not enough clearance winners and too many people charged with the job of stopping opposition players rather than getting the ball themselves.
depth = Crowley, Lower, Mzungu, Crichton, Roberton, Sutcliffe, Sheridan, Forster, Spurr, Roberts, Schloithe
Midfield = D with the lack of depth after our best 3 midfielders who can take a game on when the best 3 are struggling we look very vulnerable if we dont get first hands on the ball from a stoppage
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Forwards
without Pavlich we are toothless and barely able to get a mark inside fifty
Mayne Bradley Ballantyne
Mellington Pavlich Walters
depth = Pearce Anthony Crozier Pitt Michie, Menegola, Wilson King
Forwards = C best area on the ground for us if Pavlich stays in there permanently but without Pavlich we are toothless and it becomes pretty poor....
Rucks
Sandilands Best bigman in the game who should be winning most clearances
Griffin a very serviceable backup
Clarke is learning to be a ruckman and forward target instead of learning to ruck then becoming a forward target after learning his trade
Rucks = B only because Sandilands has been so dominant for so long without Sandilands we look less predictable in the centre clearances but around the ground we get smashed
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Bench:
Best of the rest
1 mid, 1 forward, 1 back Sub: 1 mid
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IMO Best team structure:
B: Van Berlo Silvagni Johnson
HB: Duffield McPharlin Broughton
C: Fyfe Morabito Hill
HF: Mayne Bradley Ballantyne
F: Mellington Pavlich Walters
Foll: Sandilands, Barlow, Mundy
Bench:
Mcphee, Mzungu, Griffin SUB: Neale
Crowley probably in for experience Ibbotson would get lots of games when fit, Roberton is good at breaking the lines, Pearce is a rookie getting games as a rookie elevation but the forward depth is really poor IMO
Morabito almost assured to come in next week can't hurt?
I think the season is a write off and anything they achieve is a bonus, the real objective being to get the team learning to play the way Lyons wants them to.
Think you have the personel especially with Fyfe back to feature in finals once Lyons gets the team to click with his game plan.
I'm still wondering what Lyons thoughts are on Sandi. Truth is they win more clearances without him in the ruck and Lyons is obviously not happy to just put his head in the sand while Sandi keeps winning 40+ hitouts to opposition advantage?
What next....
Objective has to be: Make finals. Anything above that is an improvement on last year.
Eagles on the other hand ;D
Where do I start with this?
Let me go with my best 22.
B: Spurr - Dawson - Silvagni
HB: McPhee - McPharlin - Johnson
C: Hill - Fyfe - Morabito
HF: DeBoer - Pav - Mayne
F: Neale - Clarke - Ballantyne
R: Sandi - Barlow - Mundy
Bench: Lower - Pearce - Broughton
Sub: Roberton
* I would really like to hear why you think JVB is in our best 22 when most supporters think he will be de-listed at the end of this season.
* How is McPhee not in our best 22 - he has been a shining light this year (along with Johnson)
Valk... Where's Duffield??
Quote______________________________________
Midfield
this is where we struggle the most......
Barlow, Mundy,(inside)
Fyfe, Morabito, Hill(outside)
Barlow Mundy and Fyfe seem to do enough to be automatically included most weeks but after these 3
the quality of the midfielders declines a great deal with not enough clearance winners and too many people charged with the job of stopping opposition players rather than getting the ball themselves.
depth = Crowley, Lower, Mzungu, Crichton, Roberton, Sutcliffe, Sheridan, Forster, Spurr, Roberts, Schloithe
Midfield = D with the lack of depth after our best 3 midfielders who can take a game on when the best 3 are struggling we look very vulnerable if we dont get first hands on the ball from a stoppage
______________________________________
Cicjose - where does Neale rank in your mids ???
Also good to hear that Morabito isnt to far away
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 01:34:32 PM
Valk... Where's Duffield??
Traded. He has a great kick (left and right) but is soft in the 1 on 1 contests.
Quote from: valkorum on May 28, 2012, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 01:34:32 PM
Valk... Where's Duffield??
Traded. He has a great kick (left and right) but is soft in the 1 on 1 contests.
Agree. Good player but not prepared to do the hard stuff. Would get a fair bit for him imo. You have contacts with Ross? I'd have a word.
Quote from: tabs on May 28, 2012, 01:42:54 PM
Quote______________________________________
Midfield
this is where we struggle the most......
Barlow, Mundy,(inside)
Fyfe, Morabito, Hill(outside)
Barlow Mundy and Fyfe seem to do enough to be automatically included most weeks but after these 3
the quality of the midfielders declines a great deal with not enough clearance winners and too many people charged with the job of stopping opposition players rather than getting the ball themselves.
depth = Crowley, Lower, Mzungu, Crichton, Roberton, Sutcliffe, Sheridan, Forster, Spurr, Roberts, Schloithe
Midfield = D with the lack of depth after our best 3 midfielders who can take a game on when the best 3 are struggling we look very vulnerable if we dont get first hands on the ball from a stoppage
______________________________________
Cicjose - where does Neale rank in your mids ???
Also good to hear that Morabito isnt to far away
i like Van Berlo's kicking style....... sue me
i knew i was missing some names haha
tabs he would be ahead of Crichton
Mcphee is on the bench only because we have a tall back line with Johnson McPharlin and Silvagni Valk and Mcphee can fill holes in most places on the ground so he can be on the bench to do that also;
don't want to have 4 talls on the field down back too often (maybe against WCE)
Also Valk no Ibbotson? Thought he was alright?
@CJ -- McPhee plays small (see his effort against Milne earlier this year). Johnson has been playing as loose tall floating in to gaps (Scarlett, Fletcher) - I think that setup works.
@ele -- Nope, no Ibbo - he has had a good 5 years to show me something and has shown me nothing.
Fair enough. Supremely inconsistent from what I've seen.
Doesn't see the ball all game to racking up huge numbers... Then gone again.
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Fair enough. Supremely inconsistent from what I've seen.
Doesn't see the ball all game to racking up huge numbers... Then gone again.
I can only remember a few games where he racked up big numbers and that was when he came back from injury at the beginning of last year.
He got 118 DT vs the Suns this year... But yeah it is a rarity...
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
He got 118 DT vs the Suns this year... But yeah it is a rarity...
Really - he was hardly noticed (by me) in doing so.
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
He got 118 DT vs the Suns this year... But yeah it is a rarity...
a backman who gets 118 against the Gold Coast
you know your team is playing average when the backs rack up the numbers against the new teams
IMO Cicjose you have got that analysis all wrong. Our forwardline is easily our weakest area. The ball kept being pumped in to the FWD 50 against WC and Glass ext just took easy marks over our forwards.
Defence is good with McPhee, Silvagni, Johnson, Duffield, Broughton and McPharlin rounding out a decent looking backline. B.
Midfield is very good, verging on excellent when some of our younger players develop further.
Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Fyfe, Morabito, Mzungu with Pavlich bursting in on occasions is strong.
Along with good depth (Lower) who is in good WAFL form along with high draftees Sheridan, Pitt and Forster.
Forwardline lacks a big target. Pav must play permanent FWD along with Balla, Clarke, Mayne, Pearce ?
A Cloke type player would boost our forwardline from D to B.
Quote from: Cicjose on May 28, 2012, 04:58:10 PM
Quote from: elephants on May 28, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
He got 118 DT vs the Suns this year... But yeah it is a rarity...
a backman who gets 118 against the Gold Coast
you know your team is playing average when the backs rack up the numbers against the new teams
the question should be why is the ball going to your backmen against the GC....
Quote from: Barlow 21 on May 28, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
IMO Cicjose you have got that analysis all wrong. Our forwardline is easily our weakest area. The ball kept being pumped in to the FWD 50 against WC and Glass ext just took easy marks over our forwards.
Defence is good with McPhee, Silvagni, Johnson, Duffield, Broughton and McPharlin rounding out a decent looking backline. B.
Midfield is very good, verging on excellent when some of our younger players develop further.
Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Fyfe, Morabito, Mzungu with Pavlich bursting in on occasions is strong.
Along with good depth (Lower) who is in good WAFL form along with high draftees Sheridan, Pitt and Forster.
Forwardline lacks a big target. Pav must play permanent FWD along with Balla, Clarke, Mayne, Pearce ?
A Cloke type player would boost our forwardline from D to B.
Actually I rate our midfield as the worst part. Our midfield is delivering the ball poorly in to our forwardline. Clarke is taller than Glass but all game they pumped the ball long and on top of his head. A player of Glass's ilk will spoil or mark that every time.
You need to put it out in front of your forward (or to the side) so they can hold off their opponent and move towards the ball in a forward motion. You can't win the 50/50 contests if you are moving backwards.
Our clearance work was always put it on the boot and get it forward. This plays right in to the hands of the opposing teams zone. You have to work it out sideways/forward/backwards to get someone in space who can then see a forward target and kick to advantage. Its not like the old days where a quick kick forward results in a 50/50 opportunity.
Quote from: Barlow 21 on May 28, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
IMO Cicjose you have got that analysis all wrong. Our forwardline is easily our weakest area. The ball kept being pumped in to the FWD 50 against WC and Glass ext just took easy marks over our forwards.
Defence is good with McPhee, Silvagni, Johnson, Duffield, Broughton and McPharlin rounding out a decent looking backline. B.
Midfield is very good, verging on excellent when some of our younger players develop further.
Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Fyfe, Morabito, Mzungu with Pavlich bursting in on occasions is strong.
Along with good depth (Lower) who is in good WAFL form along with high draftees Sheridan, Pitt and Forster.
Forwardline lacks a big target. Pav must play permanent FWD along with Balla, Clarke, Mayne, Pearce ?
A Cloke type player would boost our forwardline from D to B.
IMO we have a better structure up forward if our forwards can stop playing midfield (Ballantyne Mayne Pavlich)
those 3 make our forward line better to work with than our midfield which only has Mundy Barlow and Fyfe as mids
we need better service to the forward line that needs to include Ballantyne Mayne and Pavlich instead of plugging midfield gaps with these 3 every time we go behind
i must admit tho that we need to get at least one other key forward in the draft (if not 2) and then load up on Mids
We should have got Darling :(
Quote from: Barlow 21 on May 28, 2012, 05:24:35 PM
We should have got Darling :(
It wouldn't matter - our current delivery to the forward line is shower. It doesnt matter who you put up front - if you cant kick it to them they cant mark it.
i would have liked Kersten instead of recruiting Menegola on the rookie list
Quote from: Cicjose on May 28, 2012, 05:26:23 PM
i would have liked Kersten instead of recruiting Menegola on the rookie list
A lot of us would - but we need midfielders as what we have aren't that good. Why do you think Pav and Balla (our best 2 forwards) are pushing in to the middle?
Quote from: Barlow 21 on May 28, 2012, 05:24:35 PM
We should have got Darling :(
I'm sure the Tigers would have preferred Franklin over Tambling and the Hawks Joel Selwood over Mitchell Thorp (who?)
Quote from: valkorum on May 28, 2012, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Cicjose on May 28, 2012, 05:26:23 PM
i would have liked Kersten instead of recruiting Menegola on the rookie list
A lot of us would - but we need midfielders as what we have aren't that good. Why do you think Pav and Balla (our best 2 forwards) are pushing in to the middle?
cause Mundy and Barlow are trying to carry our midfield and although they are getting the ball they are not doing very well finding targets when they do have it
Quote from: Cicjose on May 28, 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: valkorum on May 28, 2012, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: Cicjose on May 28, 2012, 05:26:23 PM
i would have liked Kersten instead of recruiting Menegola on the rookie list
A lot of us would - but we need midfielders as what we have aren't that good. Why do you think Pav and Balla (our best 2 forwards) are pushing in to the middle?
cause Mundy and Barlow are trying to carry our midfield and although they are getting the ball they are not doing very well finding targets when they do have it
Which goes right back to my entire point in that our midfield cant hit a target, which is why we need midfielders who can
but our outside players (Fyfe (will play outside cause of his kicking when mora comes back hopefully) and Hill are okay kicks its just the insiders who need to clean up their disposal)
Actually I would play Fyfe as an inside mid as his disposal isnt as good as everyone makes it out to be. Career DE% of 60.7%
2010 - 61%
2011 - 61%
2012 - 57%
But he does have brilliant hands in close and can mark anything.
Everyone is having a go at Barlow and Ballantyne DE% and they are both running at 62% (higher than Fyfe)
his marking IMO is just like Sandilands tho.... sort of a bailout from a kick-in
if we for example went something like a kick out by Broughton to Sandilands and a handpass to Duffield to kick to fyfe who marks then kicks to Pavlich......
IMO we would become predictable very quickly
i understand where you come from but his marking ability is something we we need atm when trying to spread from a clearance.... and although is clearance work is first rate we need that marking ability
http://www.bigpondsport.com/where-freo-is-going-wrong/tabid/91/newsid/88924/default.aspx
not pleasant reading.............
You are already predictable.
Quote from: Cicjose on May 29, 2012, 10:44:35 PM
http://www.bigpondsport.com/where-freo-is-going-wrong/tabid/91/newsid/88924/default.aspx
not pleasant reading.............
Good read and spot on ( unfortunately!) :'(
I really like the concept of the thread Cic.
Mind if i do a similar thing for the Dees?
be my guest 8)
Quote from: Cicjose on May 30, 2012, 11:01:51 PM
be my guest 8)
Cheers Cic.
Happy to give my opinion on Freo, if you'd like?
thats what this threads about lol
Ok then
B - Michael Johnson Zac Dawson Alex Silvagni
HB - Paul Duffield Luke McPharlin Adam McPhee
C - Nathan Fyfe Greg Broughton Stephen Hill
HF - Chris Mayne Matthew Pavlich Clancee Pearce
F - Jay van Berlo Zac Clarke Hayden Ballantyne
R - Aaron Sandilands Michael Barlow David Mundy
I/C - Matthew de Boer Tendai Mzungu Anthony Morabito
Sub - Nick Lower
EMER - Lachie Neale Dylan Roberton Kepler Bradley
Tall backline i know but all play their individual parts. McPhee can lock down on both smalls and talls, Dawson has a good knack of being able to limit goals for his opponent, McPharlin one of the best close checking key backs in the comp, Silvagni very good from the few games i have seen and needs to be developed as McPharlin's replacement and finally MJ in form, great running ability and a solid marker/mover (particularly in an uncontested situation). With all of the talls playing lockdown roles it allows Broughton to play midfield while also giving Duffield free reins to play his best role as a running back setting up the play.
The midfield does lack pace but from what i have seen this year, when Broughton plays in the middle Fremantle look significantly faster when moving the ball around. Hill once again attempts to increase pace in the midfield but as you know taggers get to him. I love Fyfe's quick hands and ability to maneuver the ball through and around players (feel he could be better used as an inside player but Broughton does add the speed factor as a inside man). Bot Barlow and Mundy are workhorses that tend to lack pace, but still do their jobs every week in and around the contests when they are at their best they are a lethal combo.
Pavlich as the leading man from the forwardline, even though i prefer him at FF as the target, i think Fremantle need him to play at CHF so he can push into the middle and help out the on ballers. For FF it came down to Bradley or Clarke, of which i prefer Clarke through his greater awarness and skills on the ball. You may question me with the pick of van Berlo but i think he works well as a small forward, applies pressure, solid tackler, good shot for goal and has good speed.
de Boer adds hardness coming off the bench and the ability to tag an opposition player. Mzungu is quite possibly one of the flexible positional players in the competition as he can play anywhere including as a tagger. Morabito another speedy and classy player to add pace around the midfield and forward line.
Nick Lower or Lachie Neale as the sub. Both of them have the ability to impact the game as a fresh man in different ways. Lower as more of a hard type player, while Neale adds youth and skill. For me Neale needs a little more experience before gaining and keeping a top 22 spot.
Why'd Silvagni get dropped this week? I thought he had played well last week against the Eagles
Quote from: CrowsFan on May 31, 2012, 07:49:05 PM
Why'd Silvagni get dropped this week? I thought he had played well last week against the Eagles
I dont know but I wasnt too shocked as Lyon did say we were too tall down back with not much run
Giving Freo's midfield a D is harsh. I think that they have a decent midfield, especially compared to other clubs.
The real weakness for Freo IMO is the defense. Key-shutdown big men are lacking.
Quote from: Beard on May 31, 2012, 08:51:08 PM
Giving Freo's midfield a D is harsh. I think that they have a decent midfield, especially compared to other clubs.
The real weakness for Freo IMO is the defense. Key-shutdown big men are lacking.
Have you actually watched a Freo game - the defense is the best part of the team. McPharlin in brilliant form, Dawson is doing a job, McPhee been great and M Johnson in career best form.
Dawson is horrible, McPhee couldn't hold off a guy like NRoo. I agree that Johnson is doing good, but he's a connecting player along with Duffield and Broughton.
Quote from: Beard on May 31, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
Dawson is horrible, McPhee couldn't hold off a guy like NRoo. I agree that Johnson is doing good, but he's a connecting player along with Duffield and Broughton.
McPhee isnt playing on the likes of NRoo - why would he when we have McPharlin (IMO should have been AA CHB over Reid). Dawson is playing good as a lock down, he just spoils it when he tries to link up. So I ask again, what games have you been watching?
Quote from: valkorum on June 01, 2012, 12:17:01 PM
Quote from: Beard on May 31, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
Dawson is horrible, McPhee couldn't hold off a guy like NRoo. I agree that Johnson is doing good, but he's a connecting player along with Duffield and Broughton.
McPhee isnt playing on the likes of NRoo - why would he when we have McPharlin (IMO should have been AA CHB over Reid). Dawson is playing good as a lock down, he just spoils it when he tries to link up. So I ask again, what games have you been watching?
They leaked 84 to WCE when they could only manage 36
119 to the Hawks
The did manage to keep Port quiet (but it's Port)
They have away 87 to GCFC
Just to show a few. I think I know what games I've been watching
So did you also know that before the Hawks and Eagles game the Dockers defense was the least scored against in the comp.
The defense for the first 7 rounds was
Suban/Spurr, Dawson, Duffield
McPhee, McPharlin, Johnson