Both smokeys, but which one presents better value?
Hang on a minute you're the gun, you should be telling us!
i dont think hmac is a smokey i know alot fo people who have him, im going hmac but than again im a roo fan.
Its looking like he should get the CHF role and ruck in the forward line and back up goldy when he rests. I know it was only one game but it seemed liked it fited well and he scored pretty decently, 79 in his first game back.
With West if he doesnt get the ruck job i dont think he ill do that well, i was looking at him untill stephenson came in, now has to compete with vardy and stephenson now.
Geelong have no other ruckmen other than Big O and West.
Orren to be no.1 ruck
West no.2
Dawson Simpson who would have been competing for No.1 went out for back surgery.
Vardy had hip surgery just after finals.
Both will not be back until after round 10 or longer, and even then Orren and West are the 2 best options anyway.
Dont forget, West is a premiership player. Wasnt put in the GF team for nothing.
West will be no.1 ruckman
of course west will be no. 1 ruck, there's no way he won't be
he's done his time, and now it's his time to shine this year, i'm locking him in
West is not the type of build or height to be number 1 ruck, which is why Orren was recruited. Dawson Simpson was another player to be set for No.1 ruck duties but has gotten injured, so now this is solely in Orrens hands.
West will probably have a similar role to 2011, 2nd ruck duties with stints up forward.
Not saying he wont score well but he will be splitting the ruck duties at 50% or less with Orren
Quote from: The3rd on January 16, 2012, 12:32:42 PM
West is not the type of build or height to be number 1 ruck, which is why Orren was recruited. Dawson Simpson was another player to be set for No.1 ruck duties but has gotten injured, so now this is solely in Orrens hands.
West will probably have a similar role to 2011, 2nd ruck duties with stints up forward.
Not saying he wont score well but he will be splitting the ruck duties at 50% or less with Orren
i'm with you on this one.
Saying that west isn't the right height i dont think is the right thing to say. He has a leap that allows him to get a lot more hitouts, and stephenson is only 2cm taller than him so theres not much of a difference.
Quote from: nichsa673 on January 16, 2012, 12:48:49 PM
Saying that west isn't the right height i dont think is the right thing to say. He has a leap that allows him to get a lot more hitouts, and stephenson is only 2cm taller than him so theres not much of a difference.
I see O as a out n out ruckman and prob the most damaging there.
West obv can be a great ruckman but as you say with his leap i think they will use him as the tall 3rd target up fwd and relieve O from the ruck 40% of the time.
They can't pick and choose as they only have 2, so its where these 2 will be used the best, and thats how i think it will be.
For me this is one of the most important questions that the NAB will answer, can change the whole structure of a DT/SC team.
Just to add to that
IF PODS isn't ready rd1 then it will more than likely go this way anyway imo.
As they have said at the Cats "Its his to lose"
Balme on SEN this morning mentioned Pods is tracking well and should be good to go.
I would say HMAC and I having locked barring injury. Another thing to remember is Petrie was often double/triple team last year so does this mean minimal attention for Hmac when pushed forward. From memory(correct me if I am wrong) Hamish was a decent mark up forward and 2 goals a game when up forward added to time spent in the ruck would not surprise me.
I think the roos forward line will really stretch opposition teams this year similar to west coke last year.
I'm tipping 80 PPG minimum from Hamish.
Quote from: pavs nose on January 16, 2012, 04:10:38 PM
I'm tipping 80 PPG minimum from Hamish.
Which begs the question, is that acceptable for a mid-range priced R2?
Ideally you want both your rucks to score 100+ PPG. A rookie pumping out 70-80 ppg is acceptable as once they peak in price you can trade them in for a premium R2, a la Zac Smith > Mummy / Goldy last year.
H-Mac is not a rookie, he is an akwardly priced mid-ranger, so if you are forced to trade him out for a premium R2 you are really wasting a trade, as H-Mac will only have increased in value by around $100k and a trade is worth much more than that.
IMO H-Mac should only be a lock if you are confident he can average around 100 ppg. If not, you will get more value from Big O or Giles, who you can then turn into a premium R2 if necessary once they peak in price.
Quote from: torpedo on January 16, 2012, 05:42:27 PM
Quote from: pavs nose on January 16, 2012, 04:10:38 PM
I'm tipping 80 PPG minimum from Hamish.
Which begs the question, is that acceptable for a mid-range priced R2?
Ideally you want both your rucks to score 100+ PPG. A rookie pumping out 70-80 ppg is acceptable as once they peak in price you can trade them in for a premium R2, a la Zac Smith > Mummy / Goldy last year.
H-Mac is not a rookie, he is an akwardly priced mid-ranger, so if you are forced to trade him out for a premium R2 you are really wasting a trade, as H-Mac will only have increased in value by around $100k and a trade is worth much more than that.
IMO H-Mac should only be a lock if you are confident he can average around 100 ppg. If not, you will get more value from Big O or Giles, who you can then turn into a premium R2 if necessary once they peak in price.
strongly disagree with this, hmac averaging in the 80s is worth it, if he can rise 100k he can be that stepping stone to a guy like burker, cox, sandi whoever is scoring the best.
We dont know which rucks will be the best this year so picking hmac gives you time to work that out. Most rucks dont pefrom like smith did so if you go say for giles and stephenson they maybe averahe 65-75 which for me in unacceptable for a 2nd ruck. Making 100k is enough to warrant a trade, with the bye rounds especially i would want a solid ruck bench.
If your expecting a 100 average from HMac than good luck to you, but i dont think many 1st rucks will average that.
If you pick H-Mac over a rookie on the basis he'll score an extra 10-15 ppg, what you then need to consider is whether you could score more than that using the extra $200k+ H-Mac will cost elsewhere on the field? Ie playing an extra premium mid over a mid-priced mid.
I would go with the premium mid & rookie ruck to outscore the mid-priced mid & mid-priced ruck.
I agree that H-Mac should give you very reliable coverage while you monitor the performance of other rucks, you could say that is playing overly conservative though, ideally, you should be backing yourself to pick the best players from the start.
Quote from: torpedo on January 16, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
If you pick H-Mac over a rookie on the basis he'll score an extra 10-15 ppg, what you then need to consider is whether you could score more than that using the extra $200k+ H-Mac will cost elsewhere on the field? Ie playing an extra premium mid over a mid-priced mid.
I would go with the premium mid & rookie ruck to outscore the mid-priced mid & mid-priced ruck.
I agree that H-Mac should give you very reliable coverage while you monitor the performance of other rucks, you could say that is playing overly conservative though, ideally, you should be backing yourself to pick the best players from the start.
do you trust giles to play the first 11 games.
with the byes my plan is to either go to mvecoy round 11 or if stephenson is playing go to leuy or cox.
big risk with going premium ruck and rookie ruck , biggest problem here is that if it all goes pair shaped ie injury and you dont have a lot of cash left who do you get , giles and stephenson might score ok but what if they get hurt or arent scoring well who do you put in , rucks are very limited not like doing the same in other positions
hmac is a risk for the very same reason but a little less risky as there should be some ruck around the 300k that is performing or a 400k ruck that isnt and a price drop , hopefully hmac plays at least ten games
very very very risky and not for me that strategy
i'm not brave enough to go either but for this year at least west will be #1 ruck Hmac will not be. West for me ... just
I'm taking West as my second ruck. I will regret this and it could change but Geelong rate him (he was in there premiership side) so I'll be jumping on. Save the 100-150k (I'm guessing here) and spend it elsewhere imo... West could become a 90+ ruckmen and i'd take that if not i'll look at a fallen ruckmen...