After quite some deliberation over the rules and byes and with playing league matches rounds 11-13 I have decided on this startegy. It has been doing my head in since revised rules announced.
Will set my Team up as 8/11/11. ie players from the teams that have the byes in each round. Watch byes for each line as well Ideally should be no more than 2 with 3 on one line. Set your rucks up to ensure you have bye coverage so you can set and forget. At the moment mine look like being being Berger, McEvoy, Giles and Stephenson so have good ruck cover over the three weeks. Ensure that all rookies I have listed are playing and this will be important to the number of trades.
No trades week 11
Week 12 Trade in 3 players to Team 11 from players listed in week 12 bye teams. Structure will then be 11/8/11
Week 13 Trade in 3 Players from week 13 byes players to week 12 Structure then 11/11/8
have used only 6 trades of the 24 allowed for season. And if trading diligently you can then maximise your team over the next couple of weeks.
This is the best i can come up with as bye strategy.
Injuries will obviusly result in a donut if ocurring in Rounds 12 and 13
So you're gonna wait until round 12 to start upgrading your team? You're gonna fall well behind the pack if you do..last year teams were finished by round 12/13/14.
This is where it is hard to strategise. Do we set up teams for the byes from Round 1 fall behind slightly and then catch up beacuse of bye strategy that has been implemented. My first strategy was to ignore byes but then with the first team I set up I was going to end with 5/6 donuts during rounds 11 - 13 and seeing these are also now League matches had to review my plan. Think my strategy will still be to upgarde team based on my bye structures for first 11 weeks,
You can still upgrade before those rounds. You just have to be more selective. If your downgrading a round 11 rookie and upgrading a round 12 rookie just try to stick to the same rounds. It may take2 or 3 rounds to equal back out but you have to keep your bye strategy in the back of your mind.
Hi guys, new to this site. Just became a member.
Ringo, on the strategy you've suggested for the byes I think you still have 2 donuts (one in round 12 and one in round 13).
While you have 22 and only 22 players available for those rounds, in each instance you have one (out of 3 available) on the bench. ie if you have one player benched you can only have 21 playing across the board.
I've also given a bit of thought on how to minimise donuts and now that dpp's are not really an option the least number of donuts I can get to in the bye rounds is 2. Whether that be the 8/11/11 you suggest or 7/12/11 or anything else for that matter.
2 donuts is far better than 5 or 6 though and with more than one round 11 starting option, I think to aim for 2 donuts in one of these forms certainly can't hurt. I guess the final decision on whether to continue pursue the strategy can be made in rounds 6-8 when we start upgrading a couple of our rookies. I still reckon it's worth a shot.
I'll be keeping the byes in the back of my mind, but I won't be sideways trading premiums, or trading to get the 20th best player because the top 19 are missing due to having a bye. (like rnd 13, where 20/30 top defenders are missing.)
I'd be happy to do 4 legitimate team building trades through the bye rounds and hopefully cop the 4 donuts- i dont mind copping a donut for a missing rookie who might score 60 or less, (sub-affected for example.)
I'd much rather have trades for when the real carnage sets in when the stars get rested before finals.
As someone who plays for overall i like the 8/11/11 strategy but i think there are too many players you need for scoring that you need doing that.
Personally Ill have my team nearly done and use those 3 trades in those 3 weeks to finish my team off.
Im picking the best team from the start, trust me never play catch up its got disaster written all over it.
Unless of course your just a league player I do see some merit in structuring a certain way but its risky.
Imo the best way is the simplest, set the best team you can from the start upgrade ya rookies and the closer I get to those bye rounds then Ill deal with.
I have byes and strategy in mind but Im not going to let it compromise my side from the get go.
Besides your hoping......HOPING! you get no other bad luck, say you spent the first 10 rounds preparing and losing points to then get injury and make up no ground in the bye rounds.
Having said all that I have my side 9/10/11 so could easily be 8/11/11 but if rookies shine that i want in my side and conflict with my prems I think I will deal with it and work towards the 8/11/11 if feasible.
Will probably end up doing much the same as you Custard in the long run. Done my head in for a couple of weeks trying to get a bye strategy. At worst I think I will strive for no more than 10/10/10 as this has the potential for a maximum of 4 donuts which may be acceptable in overall. Just need to ensure all trades are for the benefit of the overall team.
I don't think its a good idea to start in round 1 for the byes in 11-13, I do however think it is important to establish your Guns and Premiums with in the first 8 rounds..using the bye Strategy to choose players that will NOT have to be traded. They would be your BASE players that do not move unless LTI (same as last year). So just like in an RTS game you have buildings that never move ie: GAJ would be your command centre, Swan your Barracks and so on.
Between rounds 8-10 would be where you are finding it sensible to reap your cows into 3 more premiums that will NOT be traded and become part of your BASE. Then in rounds 12-13 trade in those crap rookies that sit on your bench but never got off to a good start or premiums that just arent going anywhere.
Welcome Back and please feel free to comment on current team structure as at 27th December.
http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php/topic,44626.0.html
Trying to set up team early and leave 9 trades for byes if required. Rookies will be assessed prior to Round 1. Spent a bit of the hols trying to set team up and this is latest effort. May change a few more times though.
Quote from: Ringo on December 27, 2011, 01:57:28 PM
Welcome Back and please feel free to comment on current team structure as at 27th December.
http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php/topic,44626.0.html
Trying to set up team early and leave 9 trades for byes if required. Rookies will be assessed prior to Round 1. Spent a bit of the hols trying to set team up and this is latest effort. May change a few more times though.
Definitly don't use any trades just prior to round 11, you want your team set up going into the 11 with no donuts/trades. It is in 12 and 13 you need to concentrate on the best possible outcome using only 6 trades. Because you see for every trade you make in round 11 to a 12 or 13 you will then need to cover the coming rounds of 12 and 13.
Don't leave yourself with to much excess or it will be nigh impossible to even get it right and cause 2 or more donuts if not using the ruck strat.
Or you can have round 12 or 13 to cop a heavy hit as long as 2 of the rounds are safe.
Thank You. You have discovered the strategy that I now look like adopting. Aim to have team set up with no trades for Round 11. (note I have used both Zorko and Docherty who have bye in Round 11 as possible DPP Coverage). DPP Will also assist in coverage for 12 & 13 with out formal trades so am hoping to get through rounds 12 & 13 with only 6 trades, This will leave me 18 trades for season and I want to have 6 available for finals. So basically the seasons strategy with trades will be
Maximum 8 trades to Round 9/10 to set up team
6 Trades during Byes
4 Trades to Round 20
6 trades for finals.
may come apart with injuries or suspensions though.
You're all wasting your time.
You think there will be 3 rounds in a row where you don't have injuries/suspensions that you will have to cover? Dreaming!
Quote from: meow meow on December 28, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
You're all wasting your time.
You think there will be 3 rounds in a row where you don't have injuries/suspensions that you will have to cover? Dreaming!
There's been plenty of times people haven't had injuries, suspensions etc. And if a round 11 player gets either it doesn't matter cus you would bench him in round 12 anyway regardless. Same for the other rounds. And if that player happens to get LTI just makes it easier to know who to trade in.
Your not being very positive meow meow
There is a way to avoid the dreaded 0.
In rounds 12 and 13 all you have to do is utilise the new trading system for all three trades each week. It's simple once you have worked it out. Just shuffle and replace as needed.
i dont think its at all necessary to plan to heavily early on. however obviously dont have to many in one position. upgrading the rookies and planning byes come round 5-10 is going to be the hard part.
Quote from: 2 on December 31, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
There is a way to avoid the dreaded 0.
In rounds 12 and 13 all you have to do is utilise the new trading system for all three trades each week. It's simple once you have worked it out. Just shuffle and replace as needed.
There is a way. Not sure I want to use it. I'm also not sure your way is the same way as we all know about. Maybe you need to expand on your thoughts and let us in on your little secret.
Quote from: bestguykai on January 02, 2012, 03:52:55 PM
Quote from: 2 on December 31, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
There is a way to avoid the dreaded 0.
In rounds 12 and 13 all you have to do is utilise the new trading system for all three trades each week. It's simple once you have worked it out. Just shuffle and replace as needed.
There is a way. Not sure I want to use it. I'm also not sure your way is the same way as we all know about. Maybe you need to expand on your thoughts and let us in on your little secret.
Unless you use the ruck strat I really cant see a way, I mean even if you moved around DPP's from positions other than ruck you still need to bring down 2 11's 12's and 13's on the pine from that possie anyway. So what would be the point if the the bench is already full.
But by all means as bestguykai stated ..tell us how it's done we'd all love to know :)
If you start with 10-10-10 and make 2 trades to counter r11, then you get 8-11-11, then you make 3 trades to get 11-8-11 then you make three to get 11-11-8. It means using both ruck sub positions every round obviously and mpp is the only way to acheive that. Am i missing something? That is the only way to avoid zeroes
I'm not sure- sounds about right though. I'll try to figure it out when DT/SC open- it's a bit too confusing figuring it using the fp :P
Quote from: PICCOLLO on January 05, 2012, 03:46:55 PM
If you start with 10-10-10 and make 2 trades to counter r11, then you get 8-11-11, then you make 3 trades to get 11-8-11 then you make three to get 11-11-8. It means using both ruck sub positions every round obviously and mpp is the only way to acheive that. Am i missing something? That is the only way to avoid zeroes
That's the only way I know of too PICCOLLO (my fav DBZ char lol).
I posted the ruck strat in more detail on the DT board.
http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php/topic,45456.0.html
Would you advise against having an 8/11/11 structure going into round 1? I only need to switch two players from round 11 to round 12 and I'm set. I just don't know if I should stick with my current formation or not.
Would not set up 8/11/11 structure from Round 1 unless it is the best team you have put together. No need to leak points in the early rounds because you set up for byes from Round 1. Still have not got the 8/11/11 structure to work out either. Doing more experimentations but for it to work you need a Ruck DPP and unfortunately most of these seem to have bye in Round 13. Once I stumble/develop the strategy that works will post here.
So to answer your question I would advise against it unless it suits your team build.
I'm almost 100% positive that we can't avoid 2 donuts (unless you use the R/F strategy, which i wont touch with a 10 foot pole) during the bye, and that's best case scenario. Tell me the last fantasy season that went to plan.
i think it is widely accepted that there will be donuts no matter what the only choice you get is when to eat them. Ringo's plan is right and as mentioned later if you upgrade downgrade prior to the byes as you SHOULD just do so maintaining ringo's structure.
This will minimize the donuts but i think nothing can completely eliminate them. Me I will structure my premiums around the byes take the best rooks and sort it out as i get closer to the bye rounds and as i trade the rooks out and upgrade.
Quote from: bestguykai on January 06, 2012, 03:03:21 PM
I'm almost 100% positive that we can't avoid 2 donuts (unless you use the R/F strategy, which i wont touch with a 10 foot pole) during the bye, and that's best case scenario. Tell me the last fantasy season that went to plan.
If you set up with 2/3/4 - 2/3/3 - 2/1/1 - 2/4/3 = 8/11/11 (in the format of R11/R12/R13) structure and suits your team you will only get one donut in Round 13. (You need to sub one from each line in round 12 to Round 11 teams)
Quote from: Ringo on January 07, 2012, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: bestguykai on January 06, 2012, 03:03:21 PM
I'm almost 100% positive that we can't avoid 2 donuts (unless you use the R/F strategy, which i wont touch with a 10 foot pole) during the bye, and that's best case scenario. Tell me the last fantasy season that went to plan.
If you set up with 2/3/4 - 2/3/3 - 2/1/1 - 2/4/3 = 8/11/11 (in the format of R11/R12/R13) structure and suits your team you will only get one donut in Round 13. (You need to sub one from each line in round 12 to Round 11 teams)
But you will also get one on round 12.
In round 12 you need to trade 1 from you backs, 1 in mids and 2 in forwards.
In round 13 you need 2 in backs, 1 in mids and 1 in forwards.
You are correct as I have just found out by experimentation. If you set up as follows 2/3/4; 2/3/3; 0/2/2; 3/3/3 giving you a 7/11/12 structure. No trades for Round 11. Trade one from each line to Round 11 Teams giving you a structure 3/2/4; 3/2/3; 0/2/2; 4/2/3 = 10/8/12 Both Rucks from Round 13 play and you avoid donut.
Will cop a donut in Round 13 as you can not use DPP as most of the DPP Players have a bye in round 13.
Fact is there is only one way to avoid donuts and that's through ruck dpp stratergy! Even then you must have rucks that can be interchanged between the positions (eg. two fwd/ruc etc) it is a sound tactic but there may not be two players that fit the bill that will actually be playing!! Throw in injuries and you're coping serious donuts. The only viable tactic is to start with 8-11-11 or 8-10-12 and upgrade/downgrade when the opportunites present themselves in that period. That way you have no donuts for 11 and 12 and cop 2 in 13. Why is this better than copping one donut in two rounds? Well, by round 13, your team will be stronger and more able to cope with the donuts without dropping your score too low.
Anyone else saying they have another way to avoid donuts hasn't thought things through.
I'd like to think the organisers would fix this by extending bench because it kinda sucks except for the fact we're in the same boat. There is going to be a very realistic chance that come the bye rounds, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to avoid a donut. That said, there is no real point in worrying too much about them as long as you keep in mind 8-11-11 or 8-10-12 when you reach r11
You are correct there is absolutely no way with the current rules set up to avoid at least 2 donuts during byes. As you say it will be good if the organisers recognize this and maybe play an 18 team game for byes rounds but not hopeful.
Beginning to think the best strategy unless rules change is to set team up to how you want it and cop what donuts come during byes rather than weaken team by trading out for the sake of avoiding donut. Any trades done should be to strengthen Team.
Quote from: Hoggyz_a_legend on January 06, 2012, 12:50:11 PM
Would you advise against having an 8/11/11 structure going into round 1? I only need to switch two players from round 11 to round 12 and I'm set. I just don't know if I should stick with my current formation or not.
The structure is only important come the bye rounds not at round 1. With GWS having bye in r11, you probably need to start with an 11/11/8 or something similar. Then you'll start trading your cash cows out (quite a few gws i'd expect) and get closer to the 8/11/11 as you go along.
Quote from: PICCOLLO on January 13, 2012, 07:46:51 PM
Quote from: Hoggyz_a_legend on January 06, 2012, 12:50:11 PM
Would you advise against having an 8/11/11 structure going into round 1? I only need to switch two players from round 11 to round 12 and I'm set. I just don't know if I should stick with my current formation or not.
The structure is only important come the bye rounds not at round 1. With GWS having bye in r11, you probably need to start with an 11/11/8 or something similar. Then you'll start trading your cash cows out (quite a few gws i'd expect) and get closer to the 8/11/11 as you go along.
100% piccolo thats right me will be even worse more like 14-8-8 the GWS rooks are just too good to pass up so im planning on trading to upgrade / downgrade 6 round 11 players by round 11 to get the structure right. possible i think.
Agree with both Colli and Pic You are asking for trouble if you try and set your byes up from Round 1. Only advice I will give is try to avoid any more than 2 prems in the same line on the same bye week. eg only 2 defenders with Round 11 byes etc.
At the moment my team is 11/9/10 with 5 of 10 in Round 13 in Defence to give you an example.
Quote from: Ringo on January 22, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
Agree with both Colli and Pic You are asking for trouble if you try and set your byes up from Round 1. Only advice I will give is try to avoid any more than 2 prems in the same line on the same bye week. eg only 2 defenders with Round 11 byes etc.
At the moment my team is 11/9/10 with 5 of 10 in Round 13 in Defence to give you an example.
spot on with the 2 premium(keepers) per round per line (except ruck) Ringo, the only place i break the rule is with a midpriced defender and at his price if he becomes a keeper and i cop a donut for him, it wont matter because in beoming a keeper at his price ill be miles in front and money for his inital cost and for his scoring high enough to be a keeper over a rooks scoring.
if that makes sense...
Quote from: Ringo on January 22, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
Agree with both Colli and Pic You are asking for trouble if you try and set your byes up from Round 1. Only advice I will give is try to avoid any more than 2 prems in the same line on the same bye week. eg only 2 defenders with Round 11 byes etc.
At the moment my team is 11/9/10 with 5 of 10 in Round 13 in Defence to give you an example.
Sorry
Ringo this is from another thread same topic, just wondering if it makes sense to you and what your thoughts are?
There are a couple of points to make about the byes.
1. the structure leading into the byes needs to be 8-11-11. this doesnt need to be the setup from round 1 just from round 11.
you then make no trades round 11. you trade 3 out round 12 with round 11 players. (11-8-11)
you trade 3 out round 13 ( ?-?-8) this way you only evver have the 8 players each round on the bye, providing that all other players you have a re playing you have all those 8 on the bench you get no donuts.
2. no donuts wont happen because it is almost impossible to expect every player you have to be playing during these three rounds, with zero backup (all other players 8 on bench are on byes).
3. this plan will only work if you DO NOT PICK ANYMORE KEEPERS THAN 2 IN EACH d/m/f line on the same bye.
for example, if you have goddard, scotland and delidio in your backline- you either have to trade one out before round 13 or accept a donut for one of them during round 13.
same if you have swan penleds and jelwood in the mids, one must be traded out before round 12 or you must accept a donut for them.
* this is where the dilemna starts and you must ask yourself which option you prefer.
1. start with the best premiums and ignore byes, = then =
a) take donuts for them during byes or (cost you no trades but may cost you having the best premiums from the start)
b) trade them out before byes to avoid donuts, = then =
b1) trade them back in after byes ( this has cost you 2 trades per premium) or
b2) keep them out of your side and keep the premium you traded in for them before the bye. ( this costs you 1 trade per premium but means you give up the premium you thought best for the second half of the season)
2. You start with balanced premiums that work for the byes and do not have to sideways trade them or take donuts for them, but you may want to in order to get the better premiums you didnt pick because of byes in later or you simply ugreade rooks to those premiums as you go.
either way the options under 1. allow you higher scoring for having the best premiums and may cost you 2 or 3 donuts (extra) at most. SO do the "best" premiums score more than the donuts they may cost you over the first 10 rounds??
And Or the option 1 options may cost you a lot of trades in sideways trading premiums out and possibly back in, this means YOU BETTER have balanced rooks by those rounds because you will be using all your bye round trades on the premiums.
Option 2 you don't have the best premium neccessarily on the field but you dont have to trade any premiums out over the three rounds, all your trade leading up to the byes and during them are to upgrade and downgrade rooks (which is kinda preferable to a sideways trade that avoids nothing other than avoiding a bye donut)
Me I am looking to go option 1 a) pick the best and dont trade them out cop a donut for them (if they are flying if not i will sideways trade and avoid the donut if possible (keeping in mind all the rooks have to be balanced by then also so trades will not be in great supply)
For my team at the moment this will mean a donut in def and a donut in forwards (or a premium trade required) DEF in round 13. FWD in round 12.
My rucks and mids will be spread to not need any premium trading over the byes.
THE UNAVOIDABLE BYE DONUTS
this is with my rucks it works out different with different rucks / and working on a 8-11-11 structure coming into round 11.
* ok so having 8 on the bench means no donut right? wrong.
say you have burger/sandi giles/stephensen 11-12-11-12 (byes)
in round 11 you have 2 on the bench (with bye) and 6 (with bye) in total from all the other lines to go on 6 bench spots
in round 12 you have 2 on the bench (with bye) and 6 (with bye) in total from all the other lines to go on 6 bench spots
in round 13 you have 0 on the bench (with bye) and 8 (with bye) in total from all the other lines to go on 6 bench spots
with this set up of rucks you HAVE TO take 2 donuts in round 13
WHY? because with the 8-11-11 structure as described above you HAVE TO trade out 3 round 13 players to avoid donuts, so you dont have any trades to fix this.
I THINK the only option to deal with this problem is DPP rucks and that means bid risks in scoring potential of your rucks.
What this means for my team is my round 13 defender premium is 1 compulsory donut (yay)
my round 12 forward is a (non-compulsory-extra) donut (boo)
i also get my second compulsory donut in round 13.
So some people (who do not use a dpp ruck strategy will get 2 donuts only where i have chosen to get an extra 1 by having 3 premium round 12 bye forward. I cant fix this as i have explained due to the ruck set up.
My only other option to cut my donuts to 2 is to remove the 3rd round 12 bye premium forward i have and not take that optional extra donut.
Hope this all makes some sense and more importantly i hope it is correct and i hope even more if it is not someone will correct it.
Hey Colli still doing my head in with the byes and this will probably be the discussion right up to round 11.
Nothing wrong with what you have written either from other post.
I think we both know that the bottom line at the moment is it is virtually impossible to avoid one or 2 donuts. Have heard a rumour that rules may be amended for the byes due to this problem so we wait and see.
Am I right in thinking there is a way to work out a way to limit the doughnut damage by just using the 26 other positions onfield? (discounting the four rucks)
so, using the backline as an example (purely because the rules for Fwd/Def are the same with the 7 onfield & 2 reserves)
Round 11
Def: (R13) (R13) (R13) (R13) (R12) (R12) (R12) -- [R11] [R11]
Round 12
Def: (R13) (R13) (R13) (R13)(R11) (R11) (R11) -- [R12] [R12]
Round 13
Def: (R12) (R12) (R11/R12) (R11) (R11) (R11) (R13) -- [R13] [R13]
Bold = Keeper
Red = Trade Out
Green = Trade In
Strikethrough = Doughnut
That would have 2 trades for Fwd/Def and eventuate in an upgrade of one of the R13 players to a R11/R12 premo ideally. You could also decide when to cop the doughnut later in the season, all the way up to Round 11, leaving you with backout options for injury.. this is the technique where you have "compulsory byes" yes?
If I'm wrong feel free to point it out because I'm rather over tired by now & may have overlooked something, cheers. :)