Having to check the teams half an hour before 9 games a weekend is absolutely ridiculous. It's impossible to optimise your overall points unless your mind is on supercoach all weekend.
With the old system you could cop bad luck, but that's part of the game still anyway. At least you could set your team Friday night, sit back and enjoy SuperCoach, sit back and enjoy the footy, and enjoy watching the scores at your leisure while you got on with the weekend.
The amount of work that needs to be done and the combination and permutations of things you need to keep an eye on are frankly ridiculous. Needing to keep any eye on a players mid game score because you might have to loophole him with another player who's game starts before this one finished... Trying to rearrange trade strategy's mid round because you emergency just pumped out a 150.... realy? It's out of control.
And here's the thing, these kind of decisions have very little or nothing to do with actually football knowledge. It's a lot more to do with math and logic. I personal have checked almost every final teams announcement over the past 2 years, very often this results in over 100 points gained. I would not be suprised if this weekend some people had over 200 point swings from if they hadn't checked the teams on Saturday arvo alone.
So basically it doesn't mater how good you are, how much you know about footy or even realy how lucky you are if you don't check it all weekend you are gimping your chance of winning. If you want to look at why participation numbers dropped off I'd start by looking at why it's extremely difficult for anyone who plays weekend sport, has a weekend job, or just doesn't want to be handcuffed to their phone all weekend to get involved. I'd hate to think someone got over the line this year just because they had no life on the weekend, and I'd like to know when I win my league this year that it was because had superior knowledge of the game, not because my mates couldn't be bothered checking the teams 180 times.
100% agree
I'm having my worse year in a while, partly because I don't have time to check before every game (also, some very bad decisions on my part).
Unfortunately, the more people log in, the more advertising bucks they get. So it ain't gonna change anytime soon.
:(
I'd be happy to go back to the old system not that the rolling lockout affects me but they would need to get rid of the stupid sub rule so it is a more even playing field for all , that is one thing I hate about AF and RDT
I do find it somewhat tiresome to have to attend to SC so much over the weekend. I justify it by saying that it's worth the time and energy since there's a chance to win decent money but it certainly isn't ideal. It does pull my attention away from other things quite often and it makes it impossible for me to do things which require constant attention or (effectively) do AF or RDT. I wouldn't mind going back to the old way of doing things but I can't see it happening, unfortunately.
Absolutely spot on! The coaches these days in the afl arent making it any easier either with late changes only 1-2 hours before the game its a joke. The the sub rule as well now. It just isnt feasible.
Sucks after my game of footy finishes on a Saturday and i look at the 3 games that were on at the same time and 2 players have been late withdrawals.
Basically to stand a chance you need to be at your computer all weekend refreshing your screens to see all the updates... Most simply dont have the time.
Friday full lockouts need to come back.
you cant stop late changes that's just silly
what if a player wakes up with gastro or gets hurt during warm up
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 18, 2015, 12:24:47 PM
you cant stop late changes that's just silly
what if a player wakes up with gastro or gets hurt during warm up
You can change the lockout system but!
Scrap the sub rule and maybe i would be willing to accept it.
Either that, or if your player is sub you get the best score of the subbed player or your Emergency.
Late outs are fine as most of the time there are rumours about them and you can plan accordingly.
Quote from: LordSneeze on May 18, 2015, 04:15:26 PM
Scrap the sub rule and maybe i would be willing to accept it.
Either that, or if your player is sub you get the best score of the subbed player or your Emergency.
Late outs are fine as most of the time there are rumours about them and you can plan accordingly.
Yep. Sub rule to go also. Good for nothing. Then just cap interchange at 80 or 100 and will be no need for sub
Been saying for ages (just ask Grazz ), I work a lot of Saturdays, and the lads soccer sundays, makes it easier for people that sit at their computers all weekends. That's why I suck at S/C, not sure of the reason I suck at RDT and AF but :(
If the person who wins the 50k has to spend a few hours each weekend adjusting their team i'm sure they'd cop it on the chin. Most of us that are keen enough to join and post on a forum are also keen enough to follow the games and changes throughout the year. Deal with it I reckon!
Quote from: ossie85 on May 18, 2015, 08:35:36 AM
100% agree
I'm having my worse year in a while, partly because I don't have time to check before every game (also, some very bad decisions on my part).
Unfortunately, the more people log in, the more advertising bucks they get. So it ain't gonna change anytime soon.
:(
Agreed, we need to start a petition to go back to full lockout or a "best score on bench" rule that could help with unlucky injuries.
less trades and less handed out information would be great too so it's a bit harder. unfortunately the good old days are long gone
I'm playing 3 types this year...
SC, UltimateFooty, AF... and out of all of them i'd combine the best parts of all of them...
SC - for Scoring
AF - Complete Lockout
UltimateFooty - 35% game time score - otherwise reverts to the highest game time of player onfield & emergency..
The AFL app does have final teams with sub 1hr before the game, but would be nice if SC posted final teams and even push notifications on the app of any changes from Friday's teams... Then it's really up to the user to check their phone and adjust rather than chasing up any rumours or last minute changes... But all of us at some point over the weekend throughout the year will always get caught out and miss a loophole or be unlucky....
Footy Alerts app is a good one, sends you a notification right when subs and that are announced, has saved my a$$ on more than one occasion so at least you have a chance of changing teams last minute
Follow Superfooty and Fantasy Freako on Twitter. Very, very useful for easily keeping track of things.
Quote from: MC on May 18, 2015, 10:41:08 PM
If the person who wins the 50k has to spend a few hours each weekend adjusting their team i'm sure they'd cop it on the chin. Most of us that are keen enough to join and post on a forum are also keen enough to follow the games and changes throughout the year. Deal with it I reckon!
I'm keen enough to log onto a forum, but I also like playing football on a Saturday and have my own life. From 10-4 I rarely get to see who the subs are, and any late outs. This is a heavy disadvantage for me and I would have lost 100's of points in supercoach this year because of it, should I be this disadvantaged because I like to do things on the weekend?
Get rid of subs, get rid of the rolling lockout. Make people have to choose in supercoach if they want to play Clarke over Tarrant, bring a bit of skill back into the game and get rid of the double chances of captains because of the loophole. Supercoach was so much better back in the day.
Yeh im for scrapping the Rolling Lockout , i have more time than a lot of people on the weekends but dislike having to be on or near the laptop or phone for fear of loosing points to a late out or a sub etc as i still like to do other things. From day one i disliked the advantage i had over Dudge (kicking my @rse this year but thats another sad sad story) or other mates etc. I feel for those that work or have other priorities on weekends because if your as competetive i am it would be very frustrating dropping buckets of points every other weekend.
Loopholing Captains has progressed to having non playing rooks to use to sub in scores from the bench, all within the rules as they stand now but even though i do it regularly myself im not a fan of this either. Means i need as someone said to be checking half hour before games to see how my bench is performing compared to what my onfield players may score.
I know i have the right to choose not to be attached to a media device all weekend but because im a competetive tool it's tough not to pick these devices up to make sure im not going to miss out on something that may cost points. Sometimes when we go away camping or fishing with no access to the net etc it's such a pleasant relief not to be thinking about my teams because a game is about to start but when home i can't fight the urge to see whats going on haha. Scrap it and let me feel that relief of Friday night lockout everyone in the same boat feeling again please, help me to help myself. :P
Would like to see the Sub rule disappear along side it which looks like it may happen in 2016 or atleast there's been talk of it going hope this gathers momentum and eventuates.
This weekend just gone I was out and about on Saturday and Sunday (first time this year I had been out all day on both weekend days) and had no problems quickly checking twitter about 10-15 mins before a game started to see if there were any late changes. There were no late changes so I had no issues.
From my personal perspective you need to have a plan around VC loophole before Friday and a way to execute that plan if you are out and about. If there is a late out make sure your emergencies are set.
Quote from: North Melbournes Finest on May 25, 2015, 03:49:27 PM
Quote from: MC on May 18, 2015, 10:41:08 PM
If the person who wins the 50k has to spend a few hours each weekend adjusting their team i'm sure they'd cop it on the chin. Most of us that are keen enough to join and post on a forum are also keen enough to follow the games and changes throughout the year. Deal with it I reckon!
I'm keen enough to log onto a forum, but I also like playing football on a Saturday and have my own life. From 10-4 I rarely get to see who the subs are, and any late outs. This is a heavy disadvantage for me and I would have lost 100's of points in supercoach this year because of it, should I be this disadvantaged because I like to do things on the weekend?
Get rid of subs, get rid of the rolling lockout. Make people have to choose in supercoach if they want to play Clarke over Tarrant, bring a bit of skill back into the game and get rid of the double chances of captains because of the loophole. Supercoach was so much better back in the day.
Yep... If you play the game on a Saturday its a killer to your sc scores. Not only vc loophole but, late changes subs etc. can't take out an iPhone on a football ground with you...
Keep it easy
a) Keep rolling lock outs
b) You pick 22... but take your best 18 scores (like how the byes work)
No VC or C shower... just a C for double points
If you really want you can log in and adjust your best 22... but for those who are time poor you're not going to be stung by a late out or unexpected substitution
Full lockout Friday Night...
Set your C, VC and your Emergencies... and let it roll...
no one has any more advantage of the other...
Agree, their greed in wanting as many hits to the website as possible for advertising dollars has probably cost them many players over the years, when something you enjoy actually becomes a bit of a task because it's on your mind too often it becomes annoying and a real inconvenience to your real life.
Scrap rolling lockout, bring back full weekend lockouts before first game night and we can all relax and enjoy our footy & SC more.
Quote from: Typhoon on May 26, 2015, 04:01:55 PM
Full lockout Friday Night...
Set your C, VC and your Emergencies... and let it roll...
no one has any more advantage of the other...
Rolling Lockout when a Thursday Game is played. then Full Lockout applies on the Friday Night.
Quote from: nas on May 26, 2015, 07:04:35 PM
Quote from: Typhoon on May 26, 2015, 04:01:55 PM
Full lockout Friday Night...
Set your C, VC and your Emergencies... and let it roll...
no one has any more advantage of the other...
Rolling Lockout when a Thursday Game is played. then Full Lockout applies on the Friday Night.
Agree nas, that's my preferred option
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 07:31:49 PM
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Isn't that the whole point?
If the AFL scraps the sub rule, then I'd expect rolling lockout to be scrapped in SC as well. That's one of the main reasons it's there tbh. Late outs can be replaced by emergencies, subs are an absolute dog.
yeah but you get the lowest score now to avoid so much loopholing
if they scrap rolling lockout you should just get the highest scoring player on your bench no emergencies needed
cause if you get 2 late outs in the mids but cant cover it cause you cant move an E from another pos it would be BS
AF and DT should be doing this already imo
I don't really understand your point. The whole point of them giving you the lowest scoring player if you select 2 emergencies is that otherwise it's too easy to get the highest score possible from your team in the event of late outs. Basically forcing you to only pick one gives you the opportunity of making an educated prediction of which rookie will score higher in the event of a late out, which I think is a really good aspect of SC (and also AF/RDT).
If you get two late outs then bad luck IMO. Usually you will hear rumours anyway so can have 2 emergencies if you want, but it's a risk. And those types of risks make the game more enjoyable.
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 07:31:49 PM
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Isn't that the whole point?
If the AFL scraps the sub rule, then I'd expect rolling lockout to be scrapped in SC as well. That's one of the main reasons it's there tbh. Late outs can be replaced by emergencies, subs are an absolute dog.
Isn't the rolling lockout there so that more people visit the site? More clicks = more ad revenue
Quote from: Big Mac on May 26, 2015, 08:39:18 PM
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 07:31:49 PM
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Isn't that the whole point?
If the AFL scraps the sub rule, then I'd expect rolling lockout to be scrapped in SC as well. That's one of the main reasons it's there tbh. Late outs can be replaced by emergencies, subs are an absolute dog.
Isn't the rolling lockout there so that more people visit the site? More clicks = more ad revenue
That's one of the reasons, but if they're losing a lot of participants due to the rule, then they might revert back to full lockout if the sub rule gets scrapped I reckon. Not a guarantee by any means though.
I'd imagine they'd have another survey, and so it'll depend on the results from that.
so your saying if you get 2 late outs and can only cover one due to emergencies tough luck kiss any chance at overall goodbye
i think that's silly
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 08:58:44 PM
so your saying if you get 2 late outs and can only cover one due to emergencies tough luck kiss any chance at overall goodbye
i think that's silly
You can cover 2 though...by having 2 emergencies. And that's the risk you take.
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 08:58:44 PM
so your saying if you get 2 late outs and can only cover one due to emergencies tough luck kiss any chance at overall goodbye
i think that's silly
You can cover 2 though...by having 2 emergencies. And that's the risk you take.
you cant cover 2 on each line though
my suggestion takes out and the risk of having 2 outs
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 08:58:44 PM
so your saying if you get 2 late outs and can only cover one due to emergencies tough luck kiss any chance at overall goodbye
i think that's silly
You can cover 2 though...by having 2 emergencies. And that's the risk you take.
you cant cover 2 on each line though
my suggestion takes out and the risk of having 2 outs
I'd argue that'd make the game more boring if you effectively had 2 emergencies on every line. What if you have 3 outs? Or 4?
Quote from: Big Mac on May 26, 2015, 08:39:18 PM
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 07:31:49 PM
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Isn't that the whole point?
If the AFL scraps the sub rule, then I'd expect rolling lockout to be scrapped in SC as well. That's one of the main reasons it's there tbh. Late outs can be replaced by emergencies, subs are an absolute dog.
Isn't the rolling lockout there so that more people visit the site? More clicks = more ad revenue
Thats it in a nutshell mate, ossie posted similar earlier in the thread. It's about boosting traffic over the entire weekend and therefore the ability to increase revenue. As much as id like to see the rolling lockout gone i doubt they'll pull it even if the sub rule gets tossed out. SC has become a good money earner for them and it's not often anymore that a business will concede the ability to generate a larger income. Customer relations matter little against the mighty dollar these days, it's all about the money.
Id like to be wrong wrong wrong though i really would. I think the only real chance is if numbers drop off dramatically that it affects their ability to create the revenue they'd like then and only then will they think about changing the model.
Only 218k playing this year so since 2010 (390,367 played) there's been a drop off of 172k , nearly half of those that played in 2010 have walked away from SuperCoach, this is a considerable amount we can only hope.
Tried to find the amount of people that played in 2012 2013(Rolling Lockout Intro) 2014 to get a better gauge of any decline but couldn't find any stats to help me.
Quote from: Grazz on May 27, 2015, 02:35:51 AM
Quote from: Big Mac on May 26, 2015, 08:39:18 PM
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 07:31:49 PM
i wouldnt mind scrapping rolling lockout
scrap emergencies make it you just auto get the highest scoring player on the bench
it's bad you cant have 2 emergencies selected to be safe in fear of getting the lowest score
Isn't that the whole point?
If the AFL scraps the sub rule, then I'd expect rolling lockout to be scrapped in SC as well. That's one of the main reasons it's there tbh. Late outs can be replaced by emergencies, subs are an absolute dog.
Isn't the rolling lockout there so that more people visit the site? More clicks = more ad revenue
Thats it in a nutshell mate, ossie posted similar earlier in the thread. It's about boosting traffic over the entire weekend and therefore the ability to increase revenue. As much as id like to see the rolling lockout gone i doubt they'll pull it even if the sub rule gets tossed out. SC has become a good money earner for them and it's not often anymore that a business will concede the ability to generate a larger income. Customer relations matter little against the mighty dollar these days, it's all about the money.
Id like to be wrong wrong wrong though i really would. I think the only real chance is if numbers drop off dramatically that it affects their ability to create the revenue they'd like then and only then will they think about changing the model.
Only 218k playing this year so since 2010 (390,367 played) there's been a drop off of 172k , nearly half of those that played in 2010 have walked away from SuperCoach, this is a considerable amount we can only hope.
Tried to find the amount of people that played in 2012 2013(Rolling Lockout Intro) 2014 to get a better gauge of any decline but couldn't find any stats to help me.
Yep, the almighty dollar is the key factor here. I also think that, with the introduction of the rolling lockout, it has become increasingly difficult for people to participate in multiple competitions. I has enough trouble keeping on top of Ultimate Footy, SC and DT before the days of the rolling lockout. But now to have to check for team updates over the weekend and then log in to multiple games and make adjustments. It sounds like a small thing but I just can't be bothered, to be honest.
In regards to participants numbers, I THINK it was about 320k in 2013 and 270k last year but I'm not all that confident. It's sad that the player base has dropped off so dramatically. I used to feel like more than half of the footy fans I knew played some form of fantasy AFL, usually SC but now people have been put right off. The main reason cited is the time investment but I think for people who used to play, and have since given it up, rule changes have been the major factor. I actually miss SC back when it started. I remember being so wet behind the ears and making such bad selections and trades but it felt like more fun to me.
Thanks Red, so if your right or close on the numbers it's around 50k each tear that have dropped off since the rolling lockout came in, that's a considerable number and would be affecting their bottom line surely. It gives me hope that they'll maybe resort back to the old format.
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: GoLions on May 26, 2015, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on May 26, 2015, 08:58:44 PM
so your saying if you get 2 late outs and can only cover one due to emergencies tough luck kiss any chance at overall goodbye
i think that's silly
You can cover 2 though...by having 2 emergencies. And that's the risk you take.
you cant cover 2 on each line though
my suggestion takes out and the risk of having 2 outs
How often do you have two late outs on a weekend in DT/AF that you weren't aware of before lockout on a Friday? I honestly don't think its ever happened to me
Only just noticed this thread :D
I don't play Supercoach anymore because of the rolling lockout, people work remember, completely unfair system and also allows people to use the captain loophole every week. Most companies fix loopholes Supercoach promotes it, but they don't let everyone know about it (put it in the rules) only the really committed supercoachers actually know there is a loophole.
Meaning of "loophole" .. an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
Yes people also use the loophole in AFL Fantasy,RDT but atleast it's only when there are Thursday night games.
Anyway I haven't posted this to create a shower fight on supercoach or the captain loophole its just my opinion.
I prefer rolling lockout to the game 1 deadline, though I agree it's not perfect. If there was a late out before you would lose the player, at least now you have the chance to change it - I lost league games on account of late changes more often with a start of a weekend lockout than I have with rolling, and I work weekends... Obviously it's never going to work for everybody but that's life really.
The only way to 'fix' it would be to abandon benches and emergencies, you pick 8 defenders, 11 mids, 3 rucks, 8 forwards and you get the best 6/8/2/6 scores. But that gives zero credit to being able to pick good options based of match ups etc so I don't like that idea.
The captain loophole could be closed by adopting the finals system of 2x points for VC and 3x for C, makes that a bit fairer...
Personally, I only discovered how to use the Vice Captain loophole half way through the season, upon joining here in fact.
At the time, I recall thinking about how big of an advantage it was and still remains, it is quite unfair to those unaware of it.
The only reason I was satisfied with the Rolling Lockout was due to the dreaded subs, which are now extinct.
4 Emergencies is enough for one on each line, and should cover all bases for Sunday games, and a last minute out.
So now, I would be satisfied with either system, probably prefer the Full Lockout on Fridays, trying to create a fair playing field for both the fanatic and the less so.
But if the Rolling Lockout was kept, I would love to see the finals method of captaincy adapted, as GCSkiwi said before me to shut down the Captaincy loophole.
As has been stated earlier can not see it changing especially with sub rule gone. The big dollar from advertising is the driving force behind it and the more traffic you can generate the better for the HS. Think of the exposure with logging on 4 times over the weekend. It has come though with a drop in numbers playing the game and I think last years total of teams around 224k was the lowest I have seen for years.
The rolling lock out was one of the issues I flagged in my survey though.
When I finished 8th and won $5k from SuperCoach ... I can definitely confirm that the rolling lockout potentially cost me the chance of winning the big prize ... It was not the only reason but it definitely ended my hopes of winning at the round 16 or 17 mark ... Think I was third at the time and I believe Holzman Heroes was 2nd. I was furious haha
That being said ... I personally like the rolling lockout as it gives the better coaches an advantage over the average joe.
It makes it bloody difficult when you play footy on weekends that is for sure and it looks bad when I am in the change rooms at half time checking and updating my team .... Even a sneaky quarter time update when the coach isn't looking haha ....
Since I started playing footy again I have been unable to crack it with the best supercoaches and I do think the rolling lockout has had something to do with this.
Quote from: Ringo on January 11, 2016, 03:08:19 PM
As has been stated earlier can not see it changing especially with sub rule gone. The big dollar from advertising is the driving force behind it and the more traffic you can generate the better for the HS. Think of the exposure with logging on 4 times over the weekend. It has come though with a drop in numbers playing the game and I think last years total of teams around 224k was the lowest I have seen for years.
The rolling lock out was one of the issues I flagged in my survey though.
As obvious as this is, I'd actually never thought of that aspect, and you're totally right... we're not paying anything to play (gold subscribers being the exception, though still at $20 or whatever it is it's not much), and HS are a business... $$$$$$$
Quote from: eaglesman on January 11, 2016, 11:42:41 PM
Since I started playing footy again I have been unable to crack it with the best supercoaches and I do think the rolling lockout has had something to do with this.
Guess it depends what you call the best, but you're pretty consistently high up in the rankings aren't you? I like to think I know what I'm doing but the highest I've ever ranked is 500 something, my weakness is being a bit to safe on things but I genuinely think in the top 100 or so it takes skill to get there but luck determines where you finish within that... otherwise why aren't the same teams always in the top 10? I'd be pretty happy if I could consistently finish top 1000, I'd say that would put you comfortably in the top 1% of people actually playing.
Didn't they crack down on people with multiple teams?
Im sure a drop in numbers has somewhat to do with the rolling lockout, but I reckon you will find a lot of people who were making multiple teams have backed off.
I know I only have 10 now, instead of 50. ;)
Quote from: Drak on January 14, 2016, 11:07:41 AM
Didn't they crack down on people with multiple teams?
Im sure a drop in numbers has somewhat to do with the rolling lockout, but I reckon you will find a lot of people who were making multiple teams have backed off.
I know I only have 10 now, instead of 50. ;)
Yes this occured as you may find that some of the prize winners didn't get paid due to having multiple accounts.
Quote from: LordSneeze on January 15, 2016, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: Drak on January 14, 2016, 11:07:41 AM
Didn't they crack down on people with multiple teams?
Im sure a drop in numbers has somewhat to do with the rolling lockout, but I reckon you will find a lot of people who were making multiple teams have backed off.
I know I only have 10 now, instead of 50. ;)
Yes this occured as you may find that some of the prize winners didn't get paid due to having multiple accounts.
But how would they know?
I suppose same phone numbers?
I couldnt be assed making multiple teams. SC DT Fantasy and some others is too much time as is!