We're just passed the half way mark, and Richmond have 3 wins.
What changes to they need to make to the squad in the off-season or will they turn their season around now? Richmond clearly lack leadership at the moment. Is Hardwick's days as coach coming to an end?
Looking forward to what you Tiger fans think. This is not a sledge, I just want to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
As an outsider , I see a team playing like individuals with no ticker when times are needed.
Dimma would be spewing but the players are not responding.
They really need to rebuild now and trade hard.
For me as much as this will upset a lot of Tiger fans I would trade Jack.
A cleanout of a number of players is in order, whether it will happen or not is another thing.
The lack of leadership is very evident. Cotch, Lids, Ivan, Chappy... none of these guys are showing much imo.
Hardwick's fine, we played very well the first half this week, so he obviously isn't doing much wrong. The players need to execute the game plan, Dimma's not running out there to kick it around every week.
Trading Jack is a terrible reason. Heart and soul of the club. Bleeds yellow and black. He's pretty much our only target (let's be honest, Vickery isn't up to it). We'll be in the same boat as Melbourne were when they were missing their whole forward line. Sorry GM, silly idea.
Chappy is not a leader to be honest .
Never acted on his words.
Jack might bleed as you see it but he seems to play as an individual , Nigey.
He needs to take a leaf out of a rejected ex Tiger on how to bleed for your Team.
Its a little bemusing that Richmond had no targets other than Jack when they were bottom of the ladder and now they still have no other targets in 2014.
All other talls in the forward line are simply not AFL standard
Quote from: greenmoon on June 08, 2014, 11:11:55 PM
Chappy is not a leader to be honest .
Never acted on his words.
Jack might bleed as you see it but he seems to play as an individual , Nigey.
He needs to take a leaf out of a rejected ex Tiger on how to bleed for your Team.
Chappy's supposed to be a leader, but he's not doing that at all... not even getting close.
The problem with Jack is that when he won the Coleman a couple of years ago he was deemed too selfish, it was then said he needed to be more of a team player and so they changed his role. It now appears he's trying to go back to that, but it seems like it's not working (haven't really watched enough of the Richmond games to see and be certain).
Quote from: NigeyS on June 08, 2014, 11:17:23 PM
Quote from: greenmoon on June 08, 2014, 11:11:55 PM
Chappy is not a leader to be honest .
Never acted on his words.
Jack might bleed as you see it but he seems to play as an individual , Nigey.
He needs to take a leaf out of a rejected ex Tiger on how to bleed for your Team.
Chappy's supposed to be a leader, but he's not doing that at all... not even getting close.
The problem with Jack is that when he won the Coleman a couple of years ago he was deemed too selfish, it was then said he needed to be more of a team player and so they changed his role. It now appears he's trying to go back to that, but it seems like it's not working (haven't really watched enough of the Richmond games to see and be certain).
Totally understand Nige on how frustrating it must be. Tiger fans are the most loyal fans around.To keep going through this and keep fronting up every week is tremendous.I really think its time for some really big decisions at seasons end.
Trading for some very smart first round draft picks now , is essential.
They better not do the old, standard, when it doesn't matter, start winning and finish strongly in 9th position miss out on top draft picks trick, that stuffed/ still stuffed the club up for years!
You would hope they have learnt something and not have another win this year. What's the point? Other clubs do it well.
Hardwick is not going anywhere. Sacking him would just be a backward step. He is the right man for the job. Its the players and the list that appears to be the problem. I am very happy with Damien as the coach of our football club.
I feel if our season does not turn around then we should be very active during the trade period. The only problem is our salary cap is tight, so it may be hard to attract some quality players in the trade period and under free agency. Im also not sure we will have many quality players to put on the trade table.
I did however read an article a few weeks ago where it outlined a few kids from the 2012 draft who are out of contract and being hunted for by Victorian Clubs. Two of them where Jonathan O'Rourke (pick 2) and Lachie Plowman (pick 3) from GWS. I know it is still very early on, but I think we would be crazy not to go after these blokes.
Quote from: greenmoon on June 08, 2014, 10:55:44 PM
As an outsider , I see a team playing like individuals with no ticker when times are needed.
Dimma would be spewing but the players are not responding.
They really need to rebuild now and trade hard.
For me as much as this will upset a lot of Tiger fans I would trade Jack.
Richmond 2013- makes finals for the first time in a decade
Richmond 2014- Starts rebuilding.
spewing.
QuoteHardwick is not going anywhere. Sacking him would just be a backward step. He is the right man for the job. Its the players and the list that appears to be the problem. I am very happy with Damien as the coach of our football club.
If the coach is blameless, its the players that need to go.
I personally think that Hardwick, rightly or wrongly, needs to prove himself very quick.
Well yeah I think what's happened is that we've tried to rebuild our list through mature age recruits & trading for out-of-favour players from other clubs due to the compromised drafts of the last 4 years, which has worked fine up until now. These guys all improved on their output from their original clubs which culminated in them having career best years last year (Grigg, Chaplin, Houli etc) but now their development has stalled and they just can't cut it.
I don't think this style of recruiting was the wrong way to go, given GWS and GC were hoarding all the top talent, but that's caught up with us now and something needs to change. As you pointed out, leadership is a bit of a problem at the moment and Cotchin and Deledio are underperforming a bit this year which is disappointing. Chaplin has been horrible and I have no idea why he's even in the leadership group.
We need to go into this draft and trade period aggressively, and get our list on the right track again. Targeting out-of-contract players from the expansion clubs is a good tactic in my opinion as it gives teams a chance to top up on that young talent they missed in those compromised drafts. Said this in another thread but I hope we go after someone like Devon Smith as I think he's exactly what we need at the moment.
And as for the idea of trading Jack I think that's a stupid idea. And I also think that despite what people think he does bleed yellow and black, he's Richo mk2. Trading him would get us nowhere but backwards.
Quote from: Toga on June 09, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Well yeah I think what's happened is that we've tried to rebuild our list through mature age recruits & trading for out-of-favour players from other clubs due to the compromised drafts of the last 4 years, which has worked fine up until now. These guys all improved on their output from their original clubs which culminated in them having career best years last year (Grigg, Chaplin, Houli etc) but now their development has stalled and they just can't cut it.
I don't think this style of recruiting was the wrong way to go, given GWS and GC were hoarding all the top talent, but that's caught up with us now and something needs to change. As you pointed out, leadership is a bit of a problem at the moment and Cotchin and Deledio are underperforming a bit this year which is disappointing. Chaplin has been horrible and I have no idea why he's even in the leadership group.
We need to go into this draft and trade period aggressively, and get our list on the right track again. Targeting out-of-contract players from the expansion clubs is a good tactic in my opinion as it gives teams a chance to top up on that young talent they missed in those compromised drafts. Said this in another thread but I hope we go after someone like Devon Smith as I think he's exactly what we need at the moment.
And as for the idea of trading Jack I think that's a stupid idea. And I also think that despite what people think he does bleed yellow and black, he's Richo mk2. Trading him would get us nowhere but backwards.
Completely agree with you Toga.
Another problem of ours is fitness, we can't run out games. A couple of years ago we were really close to getting Darren Burgess, but flowering Port got him. He's as important as Ken Hinkley, in rebuilding Port, they're the fittest team in the comp by a mile.
Send our injured players in for surgery (Morris) and start playing the few kids we have.
Where are boys like Cadeyn, Kamdyn, BOH and Benny Darrou at?
Quote from: Toga on June 09, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Well yeah I think what's happened is that we've tried to rebuild our list through mature age recruits & trading for out-of-favour players from other clubs due to the compromised drafts of the last 4 years, which has worked fine up until now. These guys all improved on their output from their original clubs which culminated in them having career best years last year (Grigg, Chaplin, Houli etc) but now their development has stalled and they just can't cut it.
I don't think this style of recruiting was the wrong way to go, given GWS and GC were hoarding all the top talent, but that's caught up with us now and something needs to change. As you pointed out, leadership is a bit of a problem at the moment and Cotchin and Deledio are underperforming a bit this year which is disappointing. Chaplin has been horrible and I have no idea why he's even in the leadership group.
We need to go into this draft and trade period aggressively, and get our list on the right track again. Targeting out-of-contract players from the expansion clubs is a good tactic in my opinion as it gives teams a chance to top up on that young talent they missed in those compromised drafts. Said this in another thread but I hope we go after someone like Devon Smith as I think he's exactly what we need at the moment.
And as for the idea of trading Jack I think that's a stupid idea. And I also think that despite what people think he does bleed yellow and black, he's Richo mk2. Trading him would get us nowhere but backwards.
So how do you plan to get guys like Devon Smith then Togs?
pretty sure smith is contracted to the end of 2015
This is interesting.
@AFL_Nick: Richmond is cashed up and will have a "big focus" on luring an opposition star to Punt Rd at the end of this year http://t.co/RMU6vNtgXo
Wouldn't mind a Nat Fyfe or a Dangerfield in the yellow and black ;)
Quote from: Toga on June 09, 2014, 03:34:15 PM
Wouldn't mind a Nat Fyfe or a Dangerfield in the yellow and black ;)
Keep dreaming :P
Wouldn't mind us grabbing Lachie Plowman to be honest.
But one of those 'big names' would be fantastic.
The coach has to be mostly responsible for plight they find themselves in they just are not responding to him , Cotchin is not a good captain he is a timid , the depth of the list is poor it will be shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic for the rest of the season no easy fix to this :-[
Look on the brightside, I recall Cotchin saying that he would retire after we win a flag.
Quote from: Kellogscrunchynut on June 09, 2014, 08:51:48 PM
Look on the brightside, I recall Cotchin saying that he would retire after we win a flag.
Cotchin to play till he is 85!!
Quote from: Vinny on June 09, 2014, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: Kellogscrunchynut on June 09, 2014, 08:51:48 PM
Look on the brightside, I recall Cotchin saying that he would retire after we win a flag.
Cotchin to play till he is 85!!
Richmond- till death do us part.
Get rid of Vickery and give Aaron Edwards a game!
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on June 09, 2014, 09:57:15 PM
Get rid of Vickery and give Aaron Edwards a game!
With Vickers out for two you'd think Az would be a good chance for a game this week as he's been in good form! Although there's talk of BOH getting a game as well
Quote from: Toga on June 10, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: JBs-Hawks on June 09, 2014, 09:57:15 PM
Get rid of Vickery and give Aaron Edwards a game!
With Vickers out for two you'd think Az would be a good chance for a game this week as he's been in good form! Although there's talk of BOH getting a game as well
Both are fairly deserving, but I daresay there's only room for one.
Azza is better than BOH atm, but Azza will nearly definitely go at the end of the year, so try and get some games into BOH.
Quote from: JROO8 on June 10, 2014, 04:57:08 PM
Azza is better than BOH atm, but Azza will nearly definitely go at the end of the year, so try and get some games into BOH.
This is pretty much exactly it. I like Az, but BOH is probably worth getting games into since he'll be a part of our future (or at least I think he could be/hope he is).
I know it seems like the end of the world for Richmond and I cant blame fellow Richmond supporters for the mentality of "here comes another rebuild" but rest assured we are NOT in that bad of a position and the list wont change that much between now and round 1 next year, nor should it.
What will change is some added A grade personnel and another year into our young guns.
When you look at teams like Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo etc and wonder.. How the fk do they keep bringing guys in that become guns straight away from the depths of the draft?? quite simple really. Look who they are learning from. Look at their role models. Guys that have been in the system for a long time and been some of the best players in the AFL over the past decade.
Who are ours looking to for that mentor role? A kid thats a couple of years older than them?
Unfortunately we dont have the luxury of players learning from the best. Cotchin, Martin, Ellis, Conca, Vlastuin etc.. they are having to create their own culture and standards. We came from the very bottom with a list as bad as anyones. People look at how bad Melbourne were for so long, lets not forget we werent much better if any better at all for a long time.
All of our best players are still young. There are very few on our list that you could say have hit the age where they will start going backwards now due to age. Most will get better.
We have probably 2 of our best 22 players that could retire at the end of the year. Newman and King (borderline best 22 anyway). The rest will still be there and still at a really good age to go to the next level.
I would be open to us moving guys like Vickery and Grigg on but I doubt it will happen. It doesnt really need to. We have guys like McBean, Elton and Griffiths who will be another year more developed and able to step in. Vickery will find himself pushed out as he has already been at times this year. Up to him then if he wants to be an AFL player or not.
And the best part of it all.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-09/tigers-go-to-market
I hear Relton Roberts is a free agent.
Quote from: Kellogscrunchynut on June 12, 2014, 11:05:45 AM
I hear Relton Roberts is a free agent.
Need to grab him with our first pick in the national draft or he won't last. :(
Hire Ling & Voss please.
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 03:51:08 PM
Hire Ling & Voss please.
Bomber going to get Ling to Essendon ;D
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on June 12, 2014, 03:53:32 PM
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 03:51:08 PM
Hire Ling & Voss please.
Bomber going to get Ling to Essendon ;D
Oh that's fine if Ling will follow Bomber, I guess we'll take him too when Hird waltzes back in to the coaching job.
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 04:43:37 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on June 12, 2014, 03:53:32 PM
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 03:51:08 PM
Hire Ling & Voss please.
Bomber going to get Ling to Essendon ;D
Oh that's fine if Ling will follow Bomber, I guess we'll take him too when Hird waltzes back in to the coaching job.
Ling wont risk it with all the please explains going around,plus possible player sanctions.
he is ours if we want to go down that path.which wer
should bc we need a leader with mongrel in him.We thought Hardwick was the man,but he turned out to be a nice gentlemen.Make the hard call Tigers
Quote from: TigerImp on June 15, 2014, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 04:43:37 PM
Quote from: kilbluff1985 on June 12, 2014, 03:53:32 PM
Quote from: nickstiges on June 12, 2014, 03:51:08 PM
Hire Ling & Voss please.
Bomber going to get Ling to Essendon ;D
Oh that's fine if Ling will follow Bomber, I guess we'll take him too when Hird waltzes back in to the coaching job.
Ling wont risk it with all the please explains going around,plus possible player sanctions.
he is ours if we want to go down that path.which wer
should bc we need a leader with mongrel in him.We thought Hardwick was the man,but he turned out to be a nice gentlemen.Make the hard call Tigers
lol whatever you reckon
Lingy to come to Carlton after Malthouse is sacked for his snapchat relationship with Josh Bootsma that has resulted in unfair team selections.