The Australian newspaper has leaked a sensitive AFLPA document drawing the battle lines over fantasy footy.
The story Rivals scramble for fantasy football dollars by Simon Canning in the business section of Monday’s Australian newspaper is the first mainstream media article in what I suspect to be a long line detailing the squabbling by a large number of parties over the increasing profits to be made in fantasy football. Canning’s scoop is a document sent by the AFL Players Association to the 16 players in the Dream Team Player League, which contains some of the biggest names in the game. In addition to the figure of $1500 that is being paid to each player to spruik for Dream Team in interviews - such as Luke Hodge on the DT Talk podcast - the letter lets slip the concerns that the association and others have over the rise of Super Coach past the official DT competition in registrations, as I blogged about recently.
Let’s take a step back here. What are we fighting over? There are a large number of stakeholders in this battle and they each have their own agendas.
• The AFL holds all of the copyrights, but it appears not to be involving itself in public at this stage.
• The AFLPA wants to get a cut from fantasy footy for use of players’ intellectual property.
• News Limited is only interested in newspaper circulation and page views, beating the absent Fairfax over the head in the marketplace.
• VirtualSports (aka VaporMedia) operates both the DT and SC competitions, so it’s a Swiss banker as far as taking sides are concerned.
• Champion Data provides its specially formulated ranking points to News as their Super Coach scores, but is part owned by the AFL.
• Telstra pays the AFL $12 million per year for rights to exclusive Internet content, in the third year of a five year deal.
• FanFooty (and its brethren) is interested in providing live stats for both DT and SC to enhance fans’ enjoyment of fantasy football.
• Last but not least the fans, who are angry that they can’t get live scoring for Super Coach for reasons they don’t understand.
As you can see, we have some parties at loggerheads here. The AFLPA wants to push Dream Team because it gets no cut from Super Coach. Champion and VS get a cut from both, and are interested in both becoming bigger. Telstra is even more annoyed at News than the AFLPA because News is agitating to be given live online scoring on Superfooty, which cuts into their online turf for which they are paying top dollar. Champion Data has been instructed to restrict the flow of Super Coach scores to News, though the source of that decision is uncertain… with News firmly pointing the bone at Telstra.
News loves to push its corporate agenda through the Australian newspaper, and this article is no different. Their long-term aim is clearly to unseat Telstra from its exclusivity in the next Internet rights deal, which won’t start until 2012. Fantasy football has kind of come underneath the radar for the AFL’s Internet rights policy, and their failure to account for the rise of newspapers wanting their own online properties to benefit from fans’ insatiable demand for fantasy footy products is at the heart of this dispute. At the time of the last deal’s negotiation in 2006, Super Coach was only in its first year and lagging well behind the official Dream Team competition in registrations.
The AFL should have foreseen, if it had done a skerrick of research, that the Australian industry was developing along British lines, not American ones. English newspapers dominate the industry with huge salary cap competitions surrounding the English Premier League. AFL Dream Team is a salary cap competition, well suited to newspapers (and mainstream media Web sites) who crave competitions with rules allowing mass entry and low barrier to enjoyment. Private draft leagues, the hallmark of the US industry, have never taken off here, with the AFL’s own Premium Dream Team private draft league product still in limbo this year after round 3, and not looking like launching with any kind of fanfare in 2009, if at all.
Some of the claims in the article, like the one that Super Coach is “like having a major natural disaster on the front page every Monday and Friday”, are perhaps a bit overblown, but that’s the way that News plays it. This is a story we’ll hear more and more about during the current AFL internet rights contract. The AFL is now in the invidious position of having got both News and Telstra riled up on this issue. It is a rod for their back of their own making.
Wow! I love it. Bad luck the Fanfooty mention is only in the Australian and not a paper people actually read!
a mention of FanFooty in the Australian! watch the site traffic increase now!!
poor going by AFL and sundry.
give the fans what they want and promote the game further.
how many of us watch more games and sit on websites (like gameday live) cos we’re in supercoach etc..?
they are making heaps off us.
Fantasy footy was always going to be a gold mine to somebody. It is surprising the AFL have let it get into this state.
With the amount of people more interested in Footy through it, it is possibly indirectly worth the equivalent another team in the comp to the AFL though.
With DT Premium a dead duck the only other people I know making direct money apart from Champion and the players is Walesy from Tooserious via donations.
My expectation is that live scores and other features will become part of a package you can pay for additional. Will not be a hurdle to playing but will provide bells and whistles. Champion have sort of done this with the Prospectus (and I would be interested in sales numbers for that) but an online version will be next
I think the AFLPA and associated supporters of DT is going about this the wrong way. The key are the gaming rules in SC v DT and not marketing. I think DT got lazy and was trumped by SC.
People may start of their fantasy gaming via the DT competition but I know myself that I tend to gravitate more to SC as it offers alot more for the discerning participant.
DT is at best a SC-lite.
I await and see the success of DT trying to gain market share through it’s marketing strategy of the “player’s game of choice”. To me a marketing strategy like this only work on homogeneous products ie products with little to no discernible differences. The marketing team would come in and create an image difference through advertisements.
As I said above, IMO SC is superior to DT due to its scoring system. Fantasy coaches knows and prefer that and no amount of marketing going to change that reality and preference.
DT should spend money developing a better system or swallow its pride and copy the SC system. Once copied - then add the marketing slant on it. The AFL website could then be a platform for all things DT.
That’s my two bobs.
here’s another quarter.
for the more cerebral fanatsy coaches….enjoyment of this game is our psychological need for action and feedback
we spend weeks and weeks picking our teams trying to prove how good we are…at what you might say?…at picking teams
all the live scoring does is provide feedback to how good we were that week and the rankings provide feedback on how good we are overall
the 20 trades we get is an acknowledgement that we are humans and humans makes mistakes…so trade away our mistakes…or so we think until injuries/suspension comes along….and the feedback cycle starts again
action….feedback
maybe that was a buck forty
The AFLPA are a bunch of parasites.
Why the F##k should Hodge get $1500 to spruik up D/T.
They should give the 15 hungy to me,i need it more.
Resch - the trend on the internet is more and more free stuff as competition heats up.
Macca - with the game rules, essentially, I agree. The average Joe Fantasy Footy punter would prefer to have higher scores.
m0nty - this is turning into something from a detective movie… “you’re in too deep m0nty, watch your step or the power brokers might make you fantasy irrelevant and burn you like a trade”.
Oh yeah, and we want live SC scores, we want it NOW!
PS. Good to see the price of Gary Ablett is now worth more that the US Dollar!
The risks stem from the parties involved. After the IOC and FIFA, there are few organisations more power hungry and money focussed than the AFL and News Ltd. If either company can increase profit by 1%, no matter what the cost to the public or customers, they’ll do it.
Aussie fantasy footy risks being a victim of its own success. Scale will bring genuine opportunities for revenue. And revenue potential will equal more contracts and licensing. The AFL dishes out these licenses and will give them to major ‘partners’ - Telstra, News Ltd etc.
Contracts and licensing restricts freedom and access to information rather than promoting it. This means only ‘contracted’ parties will be able to use ‘AFL’ information (ie. Ch 9 not being allowed AFL vision) and certain parties will be restricted from offering information to third parties (ie. live fantasy scores being banned outside News Ltd sites).
And once you start dealing with restrictions and rules and contracts…well the ‘unimportant’ people (such as the 200,000 people playing fantasy footy) get cut out and have to bend to the whims of the parties with the contracts (ie. shocking delays in Friday night coverage).
Current issues with live SC scores is a small taste of the future if things keep growing. There are few certainties in life, but death, taxes and the AFL fking the public over are three.
I don’t really think you are right their Macca, and I know your not the only one that is of the opinion that SC is superior to DT due to their fascination with saying that the scoring system is fairer or more accurate.
Everyone understand that DT simply favours those players who get more of the ball, regardless of what they do with it, but this is essentially the same in SC but with a premium for efficiency and a deduction for inefficiency.
This is reflected in the fact that premium midfielders also dominate SC whilst running defenders and smaller forwards are still the best options for other positions, just like DT.
If the SC scoring system is so accurate why don’t the likes of Presti or Merritt have the same value as say Lockyer or Drummond as they are all integral parts of their respective teams and shouldn’t this value to each team be reflected if the scoring system is as fair and accurate as you say?
I think each game has its merits, and that’s why different people prefer each but the difference is the scoring system and that’s it, not fairness, not accuracy and not for so called footy purists.
IMO the number of registrants has more to do with the fact that SC has had more coverage and an earlier opening (particularly in 2008) than DT. The main disappointment for me is that the team I poured many hours into for DT this year is currently around 1,000th in SC and 7,500th in DT……
Macca Says: 8:35 am, April 15th, 2009
I think the AFLPA and associated supporters of DT is going about this the wrong way. The key are the gaming rules in SC v DT and not marketing. I think DT got lazy and was trumped by SC.
People may start of their fantasy gaming via the DT competition but I know myself that I tend to gravitate more to SC as it offers alot more for the discerning participant.
DT is at best a SC-lite.
I await and see the success of DT trying to gain market share through it’s marketing strategy of the “player’s game of choice”. To me a marketing strategy like this only work on homogeneous products ie products with little to no discernible differences. The marketing team would come in and create an image difference through advertisements.
As I said above, IMO SC is superior to DT due to its scoring system. Fantasy coaches knows and prefer that and no amount of marketing going to change that reality and preference.
DT should spend money developing a better system or swallow its pride and copy the SC system. Once copied - then add the marketing slant on it. The AFL website could then be a platform for all things DT.
That’s my two bobs.
1 2nd that
poor going by AFL and sundry.
give the fans what they want and promote the game further.
how many of us watch more games and sit on websites (like gameday live) cos we’re in supercoach etc..?
they are making heaps off us.
I 2nd that to
wot the F U C is this about
Supercoach scoring is flukey nonsense. Depending on efficiency a player can have 20 touches one week and score 40. The next week he has has another 20 toches and scores 150. Supercoach gives the coach a false sense of ability via its inflated scoring and non-realistic salary cap.
Dream Team salary cap is based on actual AFL salary cap. Scoring is more predictable and value changes are measured.
I feel like I’m actually coaching a real team in Dream Team. Supercoach makes my players seem like they are part of some exaggerated cartoon.
Don’t get me wrong, I play both. But if I win Dream Team, it will be due to tactics and research. Whereas with Supercoach, I feel it’s a bit like pluck-a-duck.
Jonny Hart i agree - i dont do supercoach because of its crap scoring and large salary cap!
dream team’s scoring is simple and effective and the tight salary cap adds difficulty and realism!
DT IS BETTER!!
SC should just die. Plain and simple.
how do i find this weeks break evens ??????
I agree with you Jonny Hart.
I play both but enjoy DT much more then SC.
Gee wouldn’t a website that offers live SC scores be popular…. Great way for a site to kick off it’s ratings.
I hate Telstra for banning SC scores, no wonder so many people are leaving their stupid company.
C’mon AFL stand up and listen to the fans and not the corporate morons who refuse to allow specific stats being displayed.
DT is wholly inferior. It awards quantity and not quality, hence overrated hacks and turnover kings like Dane Swan average a lot more than champions like Chris Judd.
I just had a look through the teams in the Dream Team Player League - it’s interesting to see that the following players did not select themselves:
Boomer Harvey
Luke Hodge
Luke Ball
Jonathan Brown
All four of these players dropped in price significantly after round 3… Coincidence? I don’t think so.
I’m on to their little plan… these so-called champions of the game have tanked the first 3 rounds just so they can trade themselves in at a cheaper price down the track.
And I thought I was obsessed with DT…
I also noticed that Jack Watts only picked up 2 Melbourne players, both rookies (Cheney and Spencer). It’s great to see his confidence in the senior list.
m0nty,
Nice article, you neglected to mention how no SC scores effects you.
Besides the standard “i want everyone to be able to see live scores for diffent games” line, is this cutting in to your site traffic? profits? Or is site traffic still consistent whilst not having to pay for SC scores?
Maybe News Limited needs to set up a website with live Supercoach scores. They are the one’s who are cleaning up on it. Stop blaming everyone else and do something about it. I’m sure they can afford to do it.
The removal of live SC stats is an extremely disappointing response from the AFL, but unfortunately all too typical. Rather than improve their inferior product (DT), they try to ‘market’ (ie dupe) us into thinking DT is a better product and remove the competition from SC by blocking our access to live stats.
Well, AFL, you can forget it. DT is not a patch on SC, which rewards the effectiveness of a player in the game rather than simply his ability to rack up numbers. I don’t care if there is never another live SC stat again, I won’t play Dream Team while Super Coach is here. But I guess this just shows the AFL is not interested in effectiveness either (ie producing a better quality product) …. just in racking up big advertising $$. Please prove me wrong AFL and restore live SC stats ASAP.
And by the way, word of mouth is the best form of advertising. That’s how I got into SC, and how I got all my mates to ditch DT for Super coach, the better game.
Graeme: FanFooty’s traffic is doing perfectly well this year without SC scores during games, up 100% over last year. In fact, their decision may be helping FF because this site is now the quickest and easiest way to find out SC scores after games.
You can’t help feeling that the AFL had massively under estimated the DT market place. They should also stop shunning the DT user and offer more prizes and cash. The traffic on their DT site must be absolutely huge.
thanks guys for the feedback
@Burley
I never said SC was a “fairer and accurate” system
Fantasy football is based on statistics
Champion Data collects a list of statistics from kicks, handballs, marks, points, goals, clangers etc.
I am assuming that VirtualSports who run these competitions design the DT and SC competition through selecting a combination of the above data list. Both DT and SC draws data from Champion Data
IMO the data combination presented in SC and its associated scoring system presents me and 305,249 other SC participants a more enjoyable experience that what DT is presenting.
The SC system focus more on quality and hard disposal. DT focus on total number of possessions.
Neither system is right or wrong. It’s about preference - and yes I do participate in both comps.
I personally find the SC focus enhance my experience in watching the game both on TV and follow the stats on the internet.
ddt is onto something. This might be the biggest conspiracy theory since JFK and 2pac, players tanking games to buy themselves at a cheaper price. Im calling channel 9 as i speak
I can’t believe just how huge Fantasy Footy has become in the last 3 or 4 years. Massive cash cow for News and the ALFPA, no wonder the lines have been drawn in the sand.
m0nty, you must be laughing all the way to the bank mate! Good on ya!
Yeah, you’d think that wouldn’t you salo…
@DDT
I would presume as fantasy coaches Harvey,J.Brown,Ball,and Hodge,are members of this site.
@ Brent Harvey,DDT is correct, you are a tanking little maggot.The least you can do is put up a post when your ready to fire.
@Hodge you should give the $1500 you scabbed to Monty to buy some razor blades.
To everyone who thinks DT scoring. Is better than SC, look at the current rankings for each competition. Gary Ablett Jr., arguably the best player in the AFL, is ranked #1 in SC, and rightfully so. In DT, he is barely in the top 10. DT rewards disposals regardless of the outcome, some hack player can get 20 kicks that all go straight to the opposition and still end up with 60 points. SC reflects the true conribution a player made to the game, as opposed to who played kick-to-kick with their opponent the most.
making a bit of coin m0nty? 6 digits yet?
In the UK some Fantasy sites cost to join, they still get millions of people and the prizes offered become greater.
I would pay a small amount to join. 200,000 teams at $10 a pop = $2 million!! not bad small additional income.
‘Fraid not modra93. Two GFCs I dislike now: Geelong Footy Club and the Global Financial Crisis.
It seems everyone is interested in how much Monty is worth.O’kay then, lets jumble some numbers around.
Fanfooty has 10,000 registered users.Of these,lets presume 2,500 are active and regularly visit this site at an ave of 5hrs per week.
2500*5=12,500hrs of time to sell advertising.
@ $20 per hour this would equate to mmmmm
$500,000 Not bad for doing something you enjoy.Kudos to you.
LOL korza, I think every one of your numbers is off there.
For a start, though we have about 12,000 registered users, about 5000 of which logged in in the last month, our logs show we average 85,000 unique visitors per week, with well over 2 million page views per week (which doesn’t include stat updates on live score pages, btw).
Traffic is not my problem. “Monetising” that traffic is the problem. There’s just not a lot of money in advertising budgets at the moment.
I’ll survive though.
Any idea why dreamteamtalk is down? Being redirected to some bluehost.com site, maintenance?
PS would it help monetarily if i clicked thru some of your ad banners? Im bored at work and have exhausted all the blogs so maybe ill just click thru a few so ya get more cash
Who cares about SC scores
Obviously I love DT a lot… a heap! We have a website and youtube show about it. But I think what is so much more apealing about DT is the simplicity of it. You can watch a game and see “That’s worth 3 points” without going… “Ah shit, that travelled 32 metres in the wrong direction and bounced to a team mates… how many points is that?”… haha.. I know that sounds stupid, but I like to know where my points came from!
On players getting paid… how lucky is Hodgey! He has played DT for years, and loves it, and if he gets paid for playing/spruiking it, best of luck to him!
I can’t wait to take him on in our league!! Have to wait until Round 18 tho… dammit!
Oh also.. our site is back online… changing server - wasn’t as smooth as we first hoped!
Thanks to Chad for getting us back online!! LEGEND!
Hey Monty - can i get a job? Seriously id quit my current job in a heartbeat.
Amen Will, each to their own…but while we’re on the subject, Ford or Holden? Haha, and how long is a piece of string?
No Chris, it wouldn’t help if you’re just clicking for the sake of it. Not unless you are actually in the market for an iPhone or Weight Watchers or a Betfair account, of course.
Magoo: Not this year, at least not a paid one. Next year, who knows?
One of the big reasons I think SC has taken off ahead of DT is the footy fan does better in SC than DT compared to the statitician.
Burley@ i cant believe that you compared presti and merrett to lockyer or drummond, look at both side of your arguments stats, presti is lucky if he kicks the ball 2 times a season and doesnt mark and is a renown spoiler in a contested possession which equals 0 points same goes for merrett, how many times have you seen either finding space and contributing to there teams forward movement im sure you will agree that neither are there teams playmakers down back i im guessing that you dont have either in your team, now why is that??
Up here on the Gold Coast AFL is slowly getting the recognition it deserves. Brisbane’s 4 GF’s in a row and the fact that every person you meet seems to have come from Victoria have helped but it remains a rugby league heartland.
The AFL expansion plans up here with GC17 and another possible license in sydney will meet with a heap of people that want to support the ventures but just don’t understand the intricacies of the game. So they do a fantasy team to learn a bit more and maybe even win a car.
I can guarantee overall confusion and lack of interest if you start talking about contested possessions, clangers and hardball gets as opposed to kicks, handballs, marks and goals.
It will be these fans that will get the most benefit out of the focus on DT rather than SC and that’s just how the movers and shakers want it. Baby steps to get hooked and then count the profit. Use your love of the game against you because they know you will always come crawling back…bringing your son and his laptop along with you.
Burley@ i cant believe that you compared presti and merrett to lockyer and drummond, look at both sides of your arguments stats, presti is lucky if he kicks the ball 2 times a season and doesn’t mark and is a renown spoiler in a contested possession which equals 0 points same goes for merrett, how many times have you seen either finding space and contributing to there teams forward movement. Im sure you will agree that neither are there teams playmakers down back and im guessing that you dont have either in your team, now why is that?? SC is DUX
Slight change in subject……..
I, like most people it seems, have been considering the Anthony for Beams/Zakka conundrum and have decided, based on the logic below NOT to trade. Are there flaws in my logic? Any comments appreciated.
Firstly, I have assumed that rookies peak after 8 games roughly (shorter if
crap like Hill).
The main pro for doing the trade IMO is that rookie mids generally average higher
and thus make you more money and quicker and there are more downgrade targets in later rounds.
However, it is unlikely, unless I get two injuries/suspensions that either player would be gracing my team (already have Otten as cover who looks reasonable). So purely a cash decision which will not directly affect my total points.
However, I don’t think it is worth burning a trade because…..
……I have 3 backs (Broughton,Hill,Suban), 2 mids (Rich,Otten), 2 rucks
(White/Jacobs) and 2 forwards (Brown,Walker) who are currently all playing
and will all peak in value in Rnds 8-10 (assuming they continue to play).
As such, at the time Beams/Zakka are ripe for the selling, I will have
another 9 potential rookies also ripe for selling and you can’t sell them all at the
same time! A possible trade strategy (Rookies only ignoring the undoubted
injuries) is:
Rnd 8: Sell one of Hill/Broughton/Suban and Upgrade
Rnd 9: Sell Otten and Upgrade (noting by that time Anthony will be providing cover, hopefully)
Rnd 10: Sell Walker or Brown and Upgrade
Rnd 11: Sell one of the remaining Hill/Broughton/Suban and Upgrade
Rnd 12: Sell one of the remaining Walker or Brown (possibly even White/Jacobs) and Upgrade
etc
So sell 5 of the 9 (so should have enough that will have peaked).
Whilst this is going on, Rnd 6, Anthony is no longer “stressed”. He has
some indecent photos of Laidley so can bribe selection, and then proceeds
to average the same as Beams/Zakka are currently getting.
Rnd 13/14: Anthony peaks and is ripe for selling at same price as
Beams/Zakka , who I never got around to ditching as I had other cash cows to
cull.
Conclusion: same net cash, same points (as never counted in my 22 anyway) and one more trade!
ddt@ do you really thing that AFL players would really tank for the sake of a fantasy game??? i really hope you were joking…
Now on to the subject i wish both forms of the game would do something to sort out there server overloads and spend the $$$ so we can all change our teams post 5pm Fri lockout!!!! as this totally hammered my rd 1 DT team lucky SC was done the day before. how hard would it be seriously?
In my opinion SC is much better because DT. SC gets points on quality not quantity like DT. Monty what do you like SC or DT?
Dan,
I think what Burley was saying, is if that SC was so superior to DT then the importance of players in their respected teams would show more value in the scoring.
Merret and Presti are team players spoiling, tackling and applying pressure. If you want to spruik superiority then you can’t be half assed.
@ Dan, just because a player doesn’t get any stats does not mean he isn’t important to the team. I am trying to say that Presti is as important as Shaw yet this still isn’t reflected in the SC scoring.
Therefore why waste time on SC when the underlying principle of scoring is the same (possessions) but the end result (a players score) is based on unknown quantities.
If SC suddenly found a way to make each players worth equal to their actual importance in a team i could see the justification for preaching about the SC scoring system.
@ Adamh, thanks, at least someone managed to grasp my rather simple to understand arguement.
sameaslastweek, thats a really good point that I haven’t seen brought up before.
dan, the SC weakness seems to be weighting of scores to certain types of possesions and what is/not is efficient.
For example, if Collingwood are playing Hawthorn and Presti spoils 10 out of 14 contests against his direct opponent Franklin, limiting the latter to 4 marks, six kicks and 1 goal and three behinds. Prestis stats may only read 1 mark, 3 kicks, 4 handballs, 0 tackles and 10 spoils. Now if Franklin averages 10 marks, 8 kicks and 4 goals than Prestis possesions have been highly efficient.
Also SCs interpretation of whats efficient is flawed. If a kick from a player hits your star forward on the chest my understanding is that is an efficient possession. But if your star forward had to run to get the mark, ends up on a tight angle with a tough shot for goal rather than one directly in front, clearly the kick that leads to the tight angle is not as efficient as the one that leads to a shot direct in front.
Both DT and SC really on raw forms of statistics that don’t measure intangibles. AFL teams definitely have ways of measuring True Player Values but if they’re anything like NBA teams they’ve invested a lot of money in that research they’re not going to give it away to fantasy football players for free.
I’ve played both for the last 2 years. They both have strengths and weaknesses, although I do find it odd that players who favour SC say its more “accurate”, because it isn’t. It’s only a different form of scoring.
There are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.
SC over DT hands down
The SC vs DT argument is about as interesting as the Coke vs Pepsi, League v Union or I Dream of Jeannie v Bewitched arguments.
Maybe if we gave Hodgey 15 hungy he’d get us a decent score in DT?
@ Will So right, who cares? Personally I play both DT and SC.
But….. Union over League any day.
While it is a close call i think i would have to pick Samantha over Jeannie.
Yeah, Sam had that girl next door appeal. I’d worry that Jeannie might sleep around a bit while I was in space….sorry…WHO CARES, watch both, play both, play none, play one. Move on.
monty - do you think the AFLPA would go to court to protect their intellectual property ( ie baring the use of the players names for profit ). I am hearing this saying far too much lately. I think these blokes get paid good $ as it is. Would be a sad day if they took it that far just for a cut.
Samantha is a hottie, but i think Jeannie would go that extra mile
I’ve been doing US Fantasy NFL for a bout 6 years and find that the private comps are absolutely brilliant. Their websites are far superior! I hated NFL 6 years ago, now it rivals AFL. Come on Australia, pump more money into sites like fanfooty so we can enjoy fantasy sports even more!!!!
I suggest it should cost $1.00 to register for fanfooty … waddaya reckon m0nty?
What’s with all this talk about advertising revenue for these companies and fan footy? Has no-one heard of firefox ad-block? Geez, I don’t even see the Telstra header and footer thanks to the ad-block elements hider. The last time I saw an advert on the Internet was when i used a public computer!!
Wardy: I tried that back in 2005 and it didn’t work. I got about 80 members.
@Monty you greedy pig,i hope you refunded those poor 80 souls thier $1 back
Does that mean you shoudln’t try it again m0nty?? … would be like giving up at qtr time cos you’re 4 goals down
hey sorry mate … forgot youre a hawk
i would definatley pay for a site with the info available on this site! it is invaluable info and there is no other site like it! good work monty and go the mighty hawkers!
@ Tony
You richard sucking thorn,i live in a rented unit in the slumps of Broadmeadows Vic.
How the f##k can i afford to pay $1 for membership to this site.
Stop encouraging that fat bearded 4 eyed f..k to take bread and milk of my dining table.
It drives me nuts how Australians are spoonfed and treated like babies with fantasy sports. A salary cap system coupled with never-ending player guides and trading advice leads to teams being 80% the same. Bring in player drafts or auctions to sophisticate Australian fantasy sports and make it a challenge. Are SC and DT afraid if they make their competitions, say, a CHALLENGE, fans will run scared??
Does Simon Canning have a good haircut, or is he bald like so many champions?
Burley,adamh and cman a spoil isnt a possession, i understand what you are saying but how many brownlows best & fairest etc, etc have ever been won by this playing style.
Further last time i checked a spoil isnt a scoring stat in DT either, by your logic a say player A and player B both have 10 kicks each but A kicks 9 clangers or results in turnover which are scored upon in DT he has the same scores… apples n oranges i guess.
Macca Says: 8:35 am, April 15th, 2009
I think the AFLPA and associated supporters of DT is going about this the wrong way. The key are the gaming rules in SC v DT and not marketing. I think DT got lazy and was trumped by SC.
People may start of their fantasy gaming via the DT competition but I know myself that I tend to gravitate more to SC as it offers alot more for the discerning participant.
DT is at best a SC-lite.
I await and see the success of DT trying to gain market share through it’s marketing strategy of the “player’s game of choice”. To me a marketing strategy like this only work on homogeneous products ie products with little to no discernible differences. The marketing team would come in and create an image difference through advertisements.
As I said above, IMO SC is superior to DT due to its scoring system. Fantasy coaches knows and prefer that and no amount of marketing going to change that reality and preference.
DT should spend money developing a better system or swallow its pride and copy the SC system. Once copied - then add the marketing slant on it. The AFL website could then be a platform for all things DT.
That’s my two bobs.
couldn’t have said it better myself! SC will become ever more popular in the future due to it’s nature of reflecting the true performance and unpredictability of a players performance. If DT want to compete they need to base their points more on the SC system rather than the rather predictable and somewhat antiquated system of possession only. As a tiges supporter I know that 30 possies isn’t necessarily the measure of a good game!
In DT, Joel Corey was last year the best player in the league.
In SC, it was Ablett. The year before it was Bartel.
Case closed on which is better.
Hey monty is the podcast on tonight or tomorow night buddy ??
Hopefully tomorrow, Molly has been crook today.
Super Coach IS BETTER than Dream Team!
SC is more challenging than DT.
dt to the day i die
read the name… enough said
shame such an interesting conversation has been derailed by DT v SC and ‘what change to my team?’ nonsense. was deadly interesting before.
the aflpa is joking if it thinks players have intellectual property over their stats.
i’m becoming increasing cranky at the promises in the supercoach site that aren’t delivered - eg a complete detailed stats breakdown, when all you get is the basic kick, mark, clanger etc. makes me wonder if resch, early in this discussion, was right when he says they will now try and sell this info to players. not only can we not get live scores but we can’t get detailed scores either. is this champion data’s fault, virtual sports, or the SC crew? either way it make the site look amaterish and lienates fans.
well, boys, don’t fuck us fans over because it is us who have made these games so popular.
and monty, long live your insight. nice writing.
by the way, what has the AFL players’ association doing with a job title of ‘general manager of operations’? who are these guys?
sorry, this may be something from which the players can’t make a buck.
why on earth would u want to pay for this site? dont change what already works. motny will be seen as a greedy turd just like the AFLPA and news. keep it the same monty, your a living legend already
why isnt the dt talk website working
Monty, last year didnt we have acces to prices and break evens for each player, is that happening this year?
yeh wats with the dt talk site?
DT is a shoe in over SC!
SC is fun, but I believe DT is for the true fantasy AFL player!
Weight Watcher - you presupposing that keeping it free works for m0nty as well as you.
Who knows how much time he sacrifices for us. If he asked modest compensation for his time (that he could otherwise spend working and earning), there’s nothing ‘greedy turd’ about that.
The question is would you pay News Ltd for a package which allowed you to see live head to head SC scoring plus access to additional data and an weekly analysis email?
I know I would be tempted if is was $5-$10/season.
monty,
what happened to fanfooty yesterday?
i was getting worried
welcome back monty glad you survived the forces of evil’s attempt to shut you down
came on last night after a few beers at a function and where were the lions/pies fantasy scores!?
ITS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE THAT THIS WEBSITE WAS DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE ON A F*U*CKING FRIDAY NIGHT MONTY - WHY NOT DO IT DURING THE WEEK.
UNBELIEVABLE - SERIOUSLY
If this is satire hairyscary it missed the mark. If not, don’t be so bloody rude. It’s not as if you pay for the use, is it?
Bite me Dicko - if your going to run a site then it should be run properly - otherwise dont f*u*cking bother.
With so many people trying to use the site it is simply not acceptable to have it down whilst a game is running.
And you can stick your Satire comment squarly up your a*rse
haryscary you didn’t have the scores for one night big deal, imagine if the trasfer was done on a saturday afternoon, it’s hardly worth going off tap and screaming about.
its a disgrace…full stop
You’re a disgrace. This website provides you with free information year round and you complain the one time it’s down on a Friday night? You colossal douche. Go away and leave those of us that appreciate the work done here in peace.
@What, Monty makes a fair bit of dough from running this site, so its customers (even if they do not directly pay Monty) should be taken care of. I think haryscary has a point, even though he could of just gone to the AFL website if he was that desperate
wot is going on with the new prices/be’s: theyre stuffed
Bugger off hairyscary. Find another site and abuse them.
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/04/17/67431_indepth-supercoach.html
also has something to say on the matter!
haryscary i think your point is stronger when you say it twice say it twice.
almost like a rhyme. now what rhymes with “its a disgrace its a disgrace”? how ’bout shuduppayaface?
Hairyscary must be a private school boy - he seems to have this vulgar sense of unearned entitlement.
Just another fkn human vacuum sucking up what he can and contributing nothing.
MONTY & OTHER PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE THAT THE SITE GOING DOWN FOR WHATEVER REASON ON FRIDAY NIGHT WAS NOT A DISGRACE:::
A few points need to be made here.
1. Monty would not do this site for fun - he makes money from advertisingm and so me and everyone else who visits he site assist with MAKING MONTY MONEY
2. With the above point in mind, and the fact that Monty has set this site up and is supposed to run it efficiently, its an absolute disgrace that the site was down on Friday evening during the Collingwood V Brisbane game. Wht not do it during the week and spare people of mollys useless un-informed match reports??
3. Monty if your going to run a site like this, (and youve said yourself its grown by 100%), the upgrade your servers accordingly so that the site oes not continue to crash over and over again every single weekend. This to is simply un-acceptable and needs to be fuxed.
4. Monty - Obviously i can go over to afl.com.au and get the numbers…. but this is not the point - if your going to run a site and profit from it (profiting because of US the viitors and members) then do it properly or not at all
All of this may seem unreasonable to some - however, if monty is not prepared to run things proffesionally then people will simply go elsewhere - OR - it will not take long for someone else to develop a better way of doing things in seasons to come.
Smarten up your act monty - the last two weekends on this site have been poor due to the site being down friday and consisten crashing of the site throughout the weekend.
Yours truly
Haryscary
Hairyscary - my crude understanding of capitalism is that m0nty has an obligation to anyone who pays him money, not to those whose actions might make him money.
You pay him nothing and he owes you jack sh!t. Indeed, you owe him a fkn apology you greedy leech.
You might want to think about that after mummy tucks you in tonight.
Will ALL you damn communist hippy pinko wingydingers just clear off!
haryscary - m0nty will do what the fuck he likes. The sooner you fuck off elsewhere, the better.
Calm down people it’s just a game inside a game. Maybe the prize money should be taken away from both SC and DT, because it seems that anything involving money makes people pigheadish. Just enjoy what’s available or start your own website, otherwise smarten the F up.
Anyway SC is better, all those DT arguments are flawed, as they try to pick out SC weaknesses, which DT is no better at. Also realisticly you’ll know how your player is going in SC because if he marks an opposition balls, or kicks to his team mates, you know that he will score well. However, if he kicks it to the opposition all day, and gives away frees, you know he will score sh!t.
Making members pay to use this site would be the dumbest thing monty could do!
Yes, people would sign up at first but then some other nerd would just make a free site and make money purely off the advertising knowing that he is gonna steal monty’s members anyway, because why pay for something that is offered free?!?!
dont fix it if it aint broke!
DT is Better. SC is for children