basically the super coach is more popular because the AFL website is crap. anything to do with AFL and web sites is to be steered well clear of.

I agree. The layout of Supercoach is much better than Dreamteam.

Good to see.

SC is a far better competition in my eyes.

Far easier to read and the layouts are easier on the eye

They each have their own advantages. I think DT suits the more mathematical, purely stat based where as super coach favours a truer representation of how well a player actually went. For the masses the super coach is probably the better system.

I think Supercoach has the better scoring system, rewarding effective possessions, contested ball etc. The only area where Supercoach falls short is the inexplicable lack of live SC scores. Why the Herald-Sun don’t set up a live site is beyond me. I’d even pay an annual subscription to see live SC scores.

Agree with everyones comments thus far, regarding the lay out and the fact that it easier on the eyes.
Apart from the general aesthetics, S/C sides are much harder to get right and you will be punished for for poor disposal efficiency amongst other things, long time dream teamers dont cope with the transition to s/c as well as supercoaches do in reverse.

One thing that is really pissing me off, is no live supercoach scores at the moment!!
If this fued with champion data continues, i can see the balance shifting back to dream team next year becuase fair dinkum fantasy coaches want the live scores during the games.

Monty is providing an awesome service by having the CORRECT s/c scores up not long after the conclusion of the game but for the HUN to not have the scores up until hours after the game has ended is an absolute disgrace!!

I feel sad now..#^$# U Supercaosch.

Completely agree DT website is like logging online with a 56k connection , and SC is the broadband equivalent ……. The only pathetic thing is not getting live SC scores while these douche bags fight for exclusivity ….. If they not careful they will lose all of us to a newer version !

I find these results surprising as I would have thought that dreamteam would appeal more to people who actually watch the game as there is no real subjectivity to the scoring - you can see your player get a mark and a kick and know they’ve got 6 points, whereas with supercoach you’re left wondering whether it was an effective kick etc… so you can only have a general idea while watching the game if your player is going well.

i know this is unrelated but can someone please tell me when heath shaw will be back?

I’m of two minds.

I agree that SuperCoach rewards better play, yet I feel that it doesn’t require an as intricate knowledge of the game. A good Supercoach team can be picked on form and a little bit of research. A good DT team takes a whole lot of research and overall thinking, particularly with the mid-rangers / emerging kids.

That being said, I started DT and understand each players scoring potential much more instinctively than SC.

i dont like supercoach,
dt is alot better. it sticks to the basics
on statistics, supercoach is just annoying

Supercaoach care factor=0

I like dreamteam more.

SC has far too many arbitrary stats and no clear mechanism for determining many of the points awarded.

The DT site whilst a pain to use, has also introduced the shields which is a nice touch.

I participate in both competitions and they are both fun, but I prefer dreamteam more as I know exactly what my players need to achieve (i.e. lots of the ball).

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, Super Coach is for people who read books, Dream Team is for people who wait for the movie to come out.

I play both, but do prefer the true interpretation of a players game in Super Coach. Any competition that encourages people to say “Chris Judd is a dud” does not reflect the great game in an adequate fashion.

Supercoach is better but needs live scores!!!

Would it too naive to say that more people play SC because it offers higher scores?

When did u guys start dream teaming? I started in 06′ same year supercoach started

Bugger the AFL, bugger News ltd, bring back the THE AUSTRALIAN newspaper.

Now that fantasy coaching, is huge business amongst the media fraternity, every greedy pig wants it’s market share.

I, as an addicted fantasy coach, both D/T & S/C,say we should all flood both fraternaties with e-mails requesting that prize monies be increased.Believe me they are making millions from us sick addicts.

AFL DT is better just for the simplicity of it. The more technical the scoring is, the less you will enjoy the watching the game whilst watching the DT players.

And no live stats as well for SC. Isnt this a sign that SC is over complicating things?

Agree with Korza, he must have a good haircut.

SC does need live scoring, agreed.

They must fix that soon or lose out to the basic game that is DT.

supercoach is shittt

Yeah well said Rohan. lol

Dream Team 216,437; Super Coach 281,652

If SC is shit, DT must be worse than shit.

only hacks play Supercoach.

DreamTeam are for the real wizards.

Not so sad anymore then Homer?

SC rules the roost on this occassion, suck it up princess

as a former dt player I’ve got to say once to play SC there is no turning back. The scoring system reflects the true nature of the performance - just wish there were live scores. No offece dt users but DT is SC for dummies.

We in the SC world lack the tools that DT has like live scoring (though if the AFL calls that live scoring in R1, I’ll carry MIck Nolan down Arden St) - and we dont really have the widespread appeal of the DT, yet the marketing muscle of the Murdoch rags seems to have them in an unassailable spot. I’m in both and I’ve noticed in my public league, that the SC has a major spread in scores between top and bottom of eack league ladder. Though that may be more down to 1 thing.

Females.

It seems that there are less women on DT than SC. Whilst you could argue this is good due to a percentage opp, they just make the winning less enjoyable, due to them coaching like spastics and cooking up doughnuts like they’re feeding the entire LAPD. If they didnt have ……..

Hey Korza - who owns The Australian - is it News Corp?

What’s DT Premium?

supercoach sucks hairy nutsack

dt to the day i die

Flower off Ropes.

DT coaches are generally smarter than SC coaches. I get a good SC ranking without even trying.

Oh and does anyone have the figures for DT vs. SC in South Australia? I don’t know anyone here who plays SC and not DT. Not one.

dt 100% better. I am a smart person eg iq 135ish and supercaoch is just too confusing/ annoying. I enjoy the simplicity of the dt as posted by the dud. DT TILL THE DAY I DIE.

champion data is a far more accurate way of determining player skill and effectiveness and thats why i prefer SC. with SC selection you really have to choose carefully as to the effectiveness of every player.

with DT you basically pick players that see alot of the ball, regardless of if they possess the skill to do the right thing with the ball.

and besides, who doesnt love watching their players take a contested mark and then cheer when the following kick is effective

Wow, 65k is a big discrepancy. I would have thought the majority of people would make a team in both leagues. I would imagine a few people would join only one to make up the numbers for a friends league although the majority of those would not frequent the site all that often.

A move to the American style fantasy league, (if free and with greater options than premium dream team) would be fantastic.

@ Muppet as long as Murdoch and Demitriou, give us the punters,the ones who are attracting millions of dollars into this huge growth buisiness,who cares who owns the The Australian(it was a figure of speach).

I say 2 cars for D/T and thats just for starters……

The main thing that people are saying here about SC is that the scoring is confusing, but that the scores more accurately reflect the quality of a players’ game.

That pretty much sums it up. If you spend a bit of time figuring out how it works, then you get access to a competition which is simply better in valuing the players. As an earlier poster wrote, when Judd is being called a dud, you know the scoring system is broken.

All the people criticizing SC are saying it is too confusing. At the end of the day, if you are easily confused, maybe DT is the way to go for you? I’m all for people understanding their limits and living within them. But for mine, I don’t know why you’d spend time on a competition (DT) when you know there is another(SC) that values players and their performances more accurately.

Read all this thread. You will not find somebody saying DT scores are a better judge of someone’s game. Telling much? They only say it’s too confusing… Mmm… I reckon those folk are just ‘easily confused’, if you know what I mean…

The reason why DT has less registrations is because their rubbish website wasn’t working on the final day of team entry!!!

Why they bothered having all the graphics and the fancy Bigpond menu when the website is running like a dog is beyond me. And they knew it was coming.

The fact that you score more points in SC and a bigger salary cap gets more of the casual coaches on board. In that regard, DT seems dour relative to SC.

Supercoach is the poo and its about time you DreamTeam coahes take a big whiff.

SC isnt complicated because you dont have to do any scoring yourself, all you have to know is that if the player uses the ball well, he scores well. Thats why duds who get alot of the ball, but turn it over score well in DT, but SH!T in supercoach.

Supercoach evens up the backline with the rest of the positions, and the only way a backman in DT scores well is if he plays in the centre. I started out with DT but realised that SC is more reflective of real life scoring.

dt has been around twice as long
sc is just a wanna be rip off.
like a australian brand gettin ripped off by a chinese dealer and sold cheaper cause they have more money.
dt is the only way to go .

XztatiK

no one cares about south australia, SC is clearly the more profesional game, its layout, its scoring system and its marketablilty. The numbers speak for it self

Both are good- they both have their pros and cons.
But IMO supercoach is harder because u actually need to look up players effectivness and how they get their marks(contested/off opposition). With dreamteam it is easy to pick players as it is just based on the basic stats- which has its upside as when u watch a game u know exactly how many points a player gets when they touch the footy. I play both and enjoy them equally…

Supercoach is definately the better game. Rewards the players that go in for the ball (contested marks and possies), and not just the guys in the backline chipping it around to each other. Plus as others have said the DT site is far inferior to that of SC

dreamteam is way better than that supercoach crap. why do people even consider doing sc over dt. DT ALL THE WAY.

i agree with XztatiK noone i no does supercoach coz it is CRAPPPPPPPPP

You d/t supporters have the lost the plot.
You cant argue with the numbers.
S/C is better in every way!!

Ive participated in dream team since 2003 and have stayed loyal to the concept.

In DT We Trust

Large generalisation but Dreamteam is for people who value stats above all else and who sit on the computer with their “Live updates” rather than watching the actual game. Supercoach is for AFL aficionados who wish to watch a game of football, cringe at clangers and not know whether something is classed as effective, ineffective or a clanger - but who understand that in the end their scores will be a reasonably accurate indication of how well the players actually played the game.

Also, the salary cap is far too high in SC.

Maybe its just because SUPERCOACH sounds better when talking to your mates down the pub, rather than discussing your DREAMTEAM, which just doesnt sound as manly, over a few pints…

TOM - “i agree with XztatiK noone i no does supercoach coz it is CRAPPPPPPPPP”

Yer no one plays it….
Dream Team 216,437; Super Coach 281,652

Moron

I rate SC way better for the reason many others have said that it is a truer representation of players who actually play the game well rather than just racking up meaningless possessions.

And for the record, it is the AFL that is stopping SC live scores mainly for the reason of propping up their own competition. It has nothing to do with Champion Data but fact is the AFL are their No.1 client and have rights over the product.

I’m not sure if this is common knowledge, but the herald sun website updates every games SC scores at the end of every qtr. To me that’s not a bad substitute, plus i am sure SC will come up with something by next year. Even halfway through the year would be handy.

Then you can always cheer the little dots on that AFL live game thing when your player kicks it to someone that isnt the opposition!

“I rate SC way better for the reason many others have said that it is a truer representation of players who actually play the game well rather than just racking up meaningless possessions.”

Joel Bowden has averaged 115 Supercoach pts since the comp started. There goes that theory.

SC is so much better, takes more skill to pick a good side, i think ur money is fairer in SC, the site is better. There is nothing that i think is better in DT. SC all the way!!

i made a sc in 5 minutes and im ranked 5000th, sc is so easy. they give out way to much money. the only mates of mine that play sc are the ones that make a team and never check it again. so in reality DT 200,000 DEDICATED fans. SC 20,100 DEDICATED FANS.

So there is no better illustration that DT’s scoring system is F$%@ed than this week. Chad Fletcher 34 possesions (114/70) v Judd 23 possesions (101/136).

So in DT you say hmmm 34 possessions is better than 23 so I’ll pick Fletcher. You need no NOTHING about football, just that Fletcher averages more possesions than Judd. Nevermind the fact that he couldn’t hit the side of a barn with a bag of wheat. 34 possesions in a losing side, most DT points for the WCE and couldn’t crack it for a mention in the best!?!? Well maybe the 9 clangers didn’t help. 9, that’s almost 30% in clangers, not to mentions those that were ineffective, but that’s typical Fletcher and reason why he is a useless SC pick.

Why play a fantasy game that rewards mediocrity? I’ve played them both and can’t believe anybody would argue DT is better, but each unto their own.

Forget the website interface, lack of live scores, etc, DT has the inferior scoring system and therefore the inferior product. Period.

Dreamteam simply dopes not reflect the reality of a game & who is valueable & who is not. If you know a bit about footy you like to make judgements based on football ability not about meaningless numbers. Judd is the best example - he is a star player who does not need 30 poss to influence a game. In SC he is a star, in DT he is average.

@ love4thegame

Yes, sc gives starts with a little too much money on the salary cap- but to say there is only 20,000 dedicated sc players and 200,000dt is a very broad comment, where is the stats/reasoning behind that comment? It is easier to score better in sc with the salary cap, but it is the same for everyone else.

Both are good, but with the amount of resources available to every Tom, Dick and Harriet, I suggest that a draft style fantasy game like Premium DT will be all the rage in 5-10 years. The similarities of most teams seems to take something away from the concept imo.

I think I’ll call this years DT comp “The Year of the Nuff”.

I think everyone needs to calm down. I posted earlier that SC attempts to place value on better players, which is noble, however, it is also flawed in some ways. Kicking over 40 metres to a contest is effective… hmmmm. Kicking back pocket to full back to back pocket is effective… hmmmm.

I’m not saying it isn’t good, but don’t go rubbishing DT because it places its value on possession. DT is a much harder game to do well in, because you need to know more about coaches and game structure than SC, which you can do very well in focussing on the individuals.

Plus, who determines some of the SC statistics? A lot of the calls are line ball, and without live scoring, they could be estimates FFS.

Just sayin’.

WHO CARES!!!!! , no one gives a flying duck why you play one and not the other,why do people try and justify their choice in DT vs SC?? they both have their pros and cons, and different strategies are needed for both, why cant you play both and enjoy both.

because DT is farrrrrrrrrrr better, its original idea was just copied by SC and they changed a few tiny things to make it different. they even copied the layout and everything

the only reason SC has more people doing it is because it gets all the advertising in the newspapers. where as DT until this year was just an AFL competition on their website without the advertising

The only real scores in football are the ones you get when your side gets the ball through the big sticks. Every other fantasy score is exactly that - fantasy.

I agree SC more accurately assesses a players true impact on a game but I must admit I enjoy the simpler approach to scoring. That is to say, I know what my players are scoring by watching. In SC I have no real idea, and before you say I know nothing about the game I did play at SANFL level.

Its hard enough deciphering what a tackle is let alone hard ball gets, contested marks etc. That leads me to ask about the consistency in SC scores. Who decides effective v ineffective, clangers etc. Surley a lot of the scoring is down to opinion.

Also, with DT my wife knows to cheer her favs (shes got the best looking side) when they get a kick - even if it goes to the opposition.

I like Supercoach better. I’ve got players in SC that i like watching but might not always rack it up i.e Judd, SBurgoyne, Goodes, Pendlebury.

Then I’ve got the likes of Kane Cornes, Daniel Cross, Matthew Priddis etc in Dreamteam and they don’t inspire me with their play.

supercoach is a way better scoring system.montys a raahd

oakley nichols is a far better player then judd….people just rate oakley a lot harder and stuff.andrew mcqualters the best midfielder in the comp n lewis roberts thompson will be all australian centre half back

the alpine eagles would be able to beat geelong, there just so good
nick howellxx

i should be an elite afl player.id be able to beat ablett one on one easily

Monty, which competitions did you consider in the “Other” category? FWIW, I vote SuperCoach but play both and tend to do better in DT. E.g. about 2,050 in each this week. Meh.

No surprise there’s 281,000 in SC considering News Ltd has merged all the comps in each state into one main comp.
But DT only gets 216,000, the AFL will be upset with that especially with all the in-game advertising at qtr breaks and tv ads, & you can include every AFL-related interview on SEN over the last few weeks has been DT related.

I read here that SC live scoring is something the Hun can’t do because of AFL licencing with Telstra, and presumably that extends to ChampionData, who are part-owned by AFL http://superfootyforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=71817#p71817

Hey guys, I work at the Herald Sun and just wanted to comment on the live scoring: We’d love to have it, but the AFL won’t allow us to run live SC scores on our site at the moment.

We manually publish them after every quarter, but that’s as good as we can do at the moment and is never going to be as fast an RSS feed.

You can get them on all our gameday pages the moment the match finishes.

And thanks to everyone who has chosen to play SuperCoach.

Not good enuf Finn…there are your scores on your website so why should the AFL have a say in what is done with these?

we may as well stop this argument alltogether.
but ill show what each site has which is good.

Dreamteam:
Live Scoring
Premium Dreamteam
Eliminator.
Simple System
Long History
Televised Scores.
Less money(more challenging)

Supercoach:
Faster Website
Scores based on player skill.
Herald Sun advertising/stats
More money (for the ones that need it)

so all in all dt wins with the stats

Let me just say this is an awesome thread, love the debate.

I do both but most mates only do DT so I care more about that, and enjoy it more.

However SC definitely is a much more accurate representation of the game, yet I have to agree with XztatiK in that both last year and this year (admittedly only 1 round) I put very little effort into my SC team and still topped my leagues, it seems easier.

Hence DT for me

@ Chris,
I am doing d/t for the first time this year.
I put my side together in 5 minutes and scored 2119 to leave me ranked 304th in d/t after round 1. I have never ranked that high in s/c ever, not even close.
It took me 5 minutes to do my d/t because i didnt have to think at all about how well a player uses the pill just how many times they get it, i know off the top of my head who the players are that get 35 useless touches a week that make them good d/t players.
At this early stage, and it could have been lucky or a fluke, d/t just appears to me to be incredibly easy to pick a side that scores well as opposed to s/c that takes a lot more research and far greater thought process.

What will be interesting is how both competitions will function once the Gold Coast Team comes in and forces a bye round.

Of course Supercoach is going to have more - it has been promoted hard in the Herald Sun daily for 2 months now.

If AFL was promoted as hard as Supercoach i am sure the results would be different.

On a side issue - the amount of information given on Supercoach in the Sun this year is a disgrace and allowed the hacks to enter having done no research and put in OK sides.

Defeats the whole flowering purpose

SC is a pile of balls. You freaks from the breakaway murdoch pile of sheite. Oh my god (you fags would know it as OMG) when are the SC scores up? SC scores? what is he in SC? What a load of poofs. DT is the original and the best. to be perfectly honest can’t believe anyone has gone for it. Just to show that more is always less. I don’t care how many people play SC and monty if you could do the stats on the ratio of SC players and tickets to Sydney for the big pink bash on your blog that would be greatly appreciated.

@ Finn,

Disgraceful effort & planning on behalf of the HUN.
This surely should have been rectified before round 1 because the lack of live scoring has taken most of the fun out of it for me and is really pushing me back to dreamteam.
If this isnt sorted quickly you are going lose patrionage to d/t in big numbers come next year.

@Brad

2 things, mate. First of all, the early leading teams in both DT and SC are usually not particularly good teams, but the teams that got lucky, i.e. leigh harding.

Secondly, SC requires far less research because most of us are already footy tragics who know the good players, established and up-and-coming. Knowing who laps up the cheapies during red time and who will ne played loose by a new coach requires far more knowledge than SC.

Interesting comparison of scores of guns on p346 of this year’s AFL Prospectus.

Averages across the season show player rankings…

Judd SC 8, DT 73
Goodes SC 14, DT 105
Gilbee SC 47, DT 122 (it’s the haircut!)

SC kills DT!
So much easier to read, understand and appreciate how well a player is truly going! Look at the beginning salary caps, SC- 10mil (simple)vs DT-7mil and something.
Also, the team guernseys, SC has real jumpers, that football teams actually wear, DT has a shield, which has no relevance to footy.
Having said that I play both, but I spend loads more time on SC because it is better! SC’s big let down is the no live scores though.

@Brad

Agreed, I think that was what I was kinda getting at and you hit the nail on the head, if you have a fair knowledge of footy anyway you can whip up a SC team in no time

second year involved.love it all.live scores are needed for sc.

Another fact of interest…

posts on this site by registered users:

266 topics, 1365 posts - DTriumph
45 yopics, 201 osts - SCraq

All you blokes saying SC is better because it’s a true reflection of a players performance are kidding urselves. I don’t deny that it allows a player who doesnt get as many possies to score higher if they play well, but joel bowden isnt the second best backman in the league. And whenever a player gets injured theres always a few tossers who start cheering and say ‘yes, he’s injured… sucked in’, so clearly not many of you actually care about the real players anyway, it’s just a computer game to you.

DT is a lot simpler and a lot easier to understand, i dont understand why SC complicates things so much and unless ive got eyesight problems both the layouts are pretty much the same.

“SC kills DT!
So much easier to read, understand and appreciate how well a player is truly going! Look at the beginning salary caps, SC- 10mil (simple)vs DT-7mil and something.” -Toddler

Seven Hundred and what million gazillion??? Oh my god! It’s so hard to read!!! What are those numbers after the seven? What does it all mean???
Oh well, off to SC where they give me a nice clean number with plenty of zeros so I can buy 30 Abletts.

My theory is that 70-80% of people that have a dreamteamers have a supercoach side as well. where as the people that do supercoach dont bother having a dream team. therfore i think the true fans are 50/50 for each

Israel and Palestine are more likely to sort out there differences before this thread sorts out which is the superior format!!

Mark,

right thought. wrong conclusion.

supercoach is hairy like stevo’s wife

[...] Coach scoring from the SC Web site and from any site at all, even the Super Coach site itself, plus the difference in registrations between Dream Team and Super [...]

Hi,
Just wondering in SC,
When does players prices start to rise? I thought when they performed well, there prices went up?

Interesting numbers.
I just added the teams by state on the Herald Sun website and only got approximately 250k?

SC has 100,000 more players than DT in victoria……so the only reason sc has more is because of the coverage it has had. No real coverage of either in other states…..or just stupid victorians attracted to the bright lights…

[...] and others have over the rise of Super Coach past the official DT competition in registrations, as I blogged about [...]

[...] the Herald Sun. What is certain is that News Ltd’s “unofficial” football management game has far and away more users than the official manager game, AFL DreamTeam, put out by the AFL and Telstra. The official game is complemented by a statistics [...]